Limitless: An AI Podcast

Josh:
Leopold Aschenbrenner, that 24-year-old guy who invests in AI,

Josh:
he's very clearly the best AI investor in the world.

Josh:
There is word on the street that his notional position in this fund is now over $20 billion.

Josh:
And Ejaz, we were looking at one of your posts from, what, a month ago,

Josh:
and it was 13. So the fund seems to be doubling basically every quarter.

Josh:
And we have some pretty serious and interesting updates on what Leopold has been investing in.

Josh:
You'll note that in the last episode, we covered his portfolio.

Josh:
He was actually short a company that a lot of people are familiar with,

Josh:
the largest one in the world, NVIDIA.

Josh:
And nobody could figure out why. He had over $9 billion worth of shorts on the

Josh:
largest and hottest AI company in the world.

Josh:
Today, we have some news that might actually uncover the reason why.

Josh:
It comes in the form of a debt offering. NVIDIA is actually raising money,

Josh:
which doesn't seem to make sense on the surface.

Josh:
Why would a company as big as NVIDIA be raising what just closed as $25 billion

Josh:
in cash when their margins in particular are so, so high?

Josh:
So on the episode today, we're going to talk about Leopold's portfolio,

Josh:
how he's doing so well, what he's looking forward to, and what he's positioning

Josh:
himself to, to go next, but also what's going on with NVIDIA.

Ejaaz:
So Leopold Ashenbrenner, for context, ex-open AI researcher,

Ejaaz:
raised a fund about one and a half to two years ago. It was a small casual raise

Ejaaz:
of $200 million, I believe.

Ejaaz:
And since then, since his last 13F filings, the fund is worth $13.7 billion.

Ejaaz:
And so everyone obviously wanted to know what positions he was taking,

Ejaaz:
what his thesis was, what was the next major trade. Now, it's important to understand

Ejaaz:
up until a month ago, Leopold was extremely bullish about everything AI,

Ejaaz:
particularly picks and shovels.

Ejaaz:
So we're talking about the NVIDIAs, the GPU makers, all that kind of stuff.

Ejaaz:
And then a month ago, it was revealed that he wasn't especially bullish on the

Ejaaz:
semiconductor landscape. He was still bullish on things like memory and power,

Ejaaz:
those kinds of bottleneck constraints.

Ejaaz:
And maybe he was bullish near clouds as well. But he wasn't bullish,

Ejaaz:
the most valuable company in the world, NVIDIA.

Ejaaz:
And we have a total of $9 billion worth of puts in NVIDIA, ASML,

Ejaaz:
and Oracle. So these are companies that are key to the infrastructure boom,

Ejaaz:
which is what has been heralded as the best and most certain trade in AI.

Ejaaz:
So people started getting concerned. and they were like, is this the AI bubble

Ejaaz:
popping? Like, we don't see any signs of this. NVIDIA is still selling so many GPUs.

Ejaaz:
What could be the problem? And since then, we've uncovered...

Ejaaz:
A few things. The major one being that NVIDIA just raised $25 billion in a bond

Ejaaz:
offering from external capital.

Ejaaz:
So what this means effectively is they're raising money outside of their balance

Ejaaz:
sheet. So it causes the question, which is why on earth is the most valuable

Ejaaz:
company in the world that has the most money that's making the most money that

Ejaaz:
has the highest margins raising $25 billion?

Josh:
In fact, they weren't only going to plan to raise, they were only going to plan

Josh:
to raise 20 billion and they actually wound up raising 25 billion which was

Josh:
more than three times oversubscribed and it's funny when in the last episode

Josh:
that we were talking about this portfolio are we in a bubble

Josh:
how do we know when the top is getting closer to being in we're like don't worry

Josh:
about it all these companies are spending a tremendous amount of capex but they

Josh:
have a huge amount of revenue to fund all that it's coming right off the balance

Josh:
sheet this is the first time since 2021 in the case of nvidia where they're actually raising money

Josh:
outside of the balance sheet they're not taking their money on the balance sheet

Josh:
which i believe is about 12 billion dollars they currently have.

Josh:
And that leads me to a few questions. It's like, Leopold is short,

Josh:
NVIDIA is raising some debt, when it seems like they have infinite cash and infinite margins.

Josh:
What's actually going on here? So IJAS, maybe you could help us unpack what

Josh:
this deal actually was. This is a bond offering, which is not just a general

Josh:
fundraise. It's a little bit different.

Josh:
And at the end of the day now, NVIDIA now has 25 billion additional dollars

Josh:
on their balance sheet for what I assume is a pretty low rate.

Ejaaz:
So let me give you both sides of the story here.

Ejaaz:
NVIDIA has around $13.7 billion on their cash balance sheet.

Ejaaz:
So this is money that they could just spend to do whatever they want.

Ejaaz:
So the question then is, why are they raising external capital?

Ejaaz:
Well, the analogy is, think of you purchasing a house. Typically,

Ejaaz:
most people would, if they have the money, they would still,

Ejaaz:
take a mortgage out. Why? Because you can, you know, use your capital for other

Ejaaz:
purposes, and you can just borrow money at a really cheap rate.

Ejaaz:
Now, interest rates have been pretty cataclysmic for a while now.

Ejaaz:
But if you're NVIDIA, the most valuable company in the world,

Ejaaz:
that has the most valuable stock in the world, the most desirable stock in the

Ejaaz:
world, hey, you could raise at pretty decent rates. And I've got the breakdown

Ejaaz:
over here for the $25 billion bond offering.

Ejaaz:
They've got bonds that range between two to 30 years. So it's effectively free

Ejaaz:
money that they're raising at. The interest rates are almost nothing.

Ejaaz:
It's almost as good as government yield bond rates itself, which is like the

Ejaaz:
best kind of offering that you could potentially get.

Ejaaz:
And there were 4x oversubscribed for people who wanted to help invest in this money.

Ejaaz:
So $85 billion worth of capital wanted to kind of pummel into this $25 billion

Ejaaz:
raise. So NVIDIA could just have their pick of the litter. Now,

Ejaaz:
if you want to look at the reasons behind and why they're doing this.

Ejaaz:
Nvidia's stated claim officially is, this is just financial bookkeeping.

Ejaaz:
We wanna pay off and refinance some debt that we have on our balance sheet,

Ejaaz:
which sounds familiar because Google did something very similar about three

Ejaaz:
weeks ago, and then they did it earlier on this year in February.

Ejaaz:
So you could take the stated claim that this is financial bookkeeping,

Ejaaz:
but the other side of it is.

Ejaaz:
Does it seem pretty coincidental that NVIDIA, Amazon, Google,

Ejaaz:
and I think three of the other hyperscalers have all raised external debt financing

Ejaaz:
in the last month and a half?

Ejaaz:
And it's a mixture of equity selling, which is what kind of like Google's done

Ejaaz:
just last week or three weeks ago.

Ejaaz:
And it's a mixture of bond raises as well. So Leopold could be right in the

Ejaaz:
sense that this might be marking the start of a bubble popping or coming down.

Ejaaz:
The house of cards are coming down.

Ejaaz:
If this is the sign of a levered bet or a levered raise. But right now,

Ejaaz:
if you look at the financial structuring of this entire thing,

Ejaaz:
it doesn't entirely say that.

Josh:
That's what I'm thinking too, is I'm looking at Leopold's portfolio.

Josh:
I'm like, man, $9 billion is a lot of money to be short NVIDIA.

Josh:
And another thing that I found out as we were researching is on May 18th,

Josh:
the board of NVIDIA actually authorized an additional $80 billion in buybacks

Josh:
and raised their dividend from a penny to 25 cents per share.

Josh:
So they multiplied the dividend by 25 times.

Josh:
They pledged 80 billion dollars to buy back shares from shareholders and a company

Josh:
doesn't really hand 80 billion dollars back to shareholders and raise their dividend 25x

Josh:
in the same month that it borrows out of need so there are these two conflicting

Josh:
things it's like well they're clearly not borrowing out of need because they're

Josh:
actually giving back to the shareholders so the question why why are they doing

Josh:
this well because it's cheap money and it seems like the way that this ai

Josh:
pump this ai bubble is being funded is just slightly shifting to a new model because

Josh:
everyone wants to be participating everyone wants to be involved in these capital

Josh:
raises nvidia has recognized this they could do so even more cheaply by issuing

Josh:
their own bonds than they can from going anywhere else so they're like hey

Josh:
if we could take some money off the table we're going to do that and it seems

Josh:
like nvidia is actually just doing just fine which leads us to the question

Josh:
of like what is leopold actually thinking how is his

Josh:
mind changed over time i mean you looked at the nvidia stock it hasn't been

Josh:
doing great the one you were just showing on screen it's not like nvidia has

Josh:
been crushing recently but it's still like five trillion dollars most valuable

Josh:
company in the world i mean only down seven percent in a month is

Josh:
nowhere, considering everything else has been pumping. But it's still like,

Josh:
I don't know, it doesn't seem like it's doing that bad.

Ejaaz:
So listen, I think that NVIDIA is not going anywhere. I think their products,

Ejaaz:
their GPUs, and now the CPU line that they just opened up a few weeks ago is

Ejaaz:
going to do overwhelmingly well. There is a surplus, an exponential surplus

Ejaaz:
of demand for AI products.

Ejaaz:
And there's only one main machine provider that can support that type of demand.

Ejaaz:
And that is NVIDIA. So I don't think they're going anywhere.

Ejaaz:
What I do think is the picks and shovel AI trade is extremely overcrowded.

Ejaaz:
And that's what Leopold's most recent portfolio positioning tells us.

Ejaaz:
Like, I mean, let's take a look at this, right? So as of their last 13F filing,

Ejaaz:
they were pretty bearish on the semiconductor landscape,

Ejaaz:
through the form of a short position or put position in NVIDIA,

Ejaaz:
ASML, Oracle, and a few other infrastructure scale providers.

Ejaaz:
But at the same time, Leopold was very long companies in the memory sector or

Ejaaz:
in the power sector or in the neocloud sector iron is one of his biggest positions.

Ejaaz:
And that since his 30 net filing is up 20 so like you know again he's hitting

Ejaaz:
some nails on the head but he's bearish some layers of the semiconductor or

Ejaaz:
infrastructure stack specifically and that tells me one very clear thing which is

Ejaaz:
leopold isn't bearish um ai infrastructure i don't think he's calling it a top

Ejaaz:
on the bubble he just thinks that the

Ejaaz:
trade itself on picks and shovel is overcrowded and that money is going to rotate somewhere else.

Ejaaz:
So if the question is, where is that money rotating?

Ejaaz:
There's two answers. The most obvious answer is it's going to the next infrastructure

Ejaaz:
bottleneck, which we've spoken about on previous episodes is power,

Ejaaz:
it's memory, it's data center networking, it's stuff like that.

Ejaaz:
We've spoken about this on previous episodes.

Ejaaz:
And then there's this other secret investment that was uncovered a few weeks ago, right?

Josh:
Yeah, this is the weird one for me. I was like, wait, this came out of left

Josh:
field. You actually told me this yesterday. And I was like, no way that's true.

Josh:
There's surely no chance that Leopold's Fund, Situational Awareness,

Josh:
20% of the fund owns Anthropic Equity.

Josh:
Yes, the AI company that everyone knows and loves, Anthropic,

Josh:
20% of Leopold Asch and Brenner's fund is involved in Anthropic.

Josh:
How do we know this? Well, it's not totally confirmed, but the Wall Street Journal

Josh:
and a few other publications have apparently sources that are very close to

Josh:
the matter that confirm this.

Josh:
And it seems as if this is a huge wildcard that we were not anticipating in

Josh:
his fund. Because when you publish these 13F filings, the way it works is you

Josh:
just publish your public positions.

Josh:
It doesn't have anything to do with privately held equity.

Josh:
Anthropic, turns out, is a huge amount of privately held equity.

Josh:
And that's where we get to this $20 billion expected valuation of his portfolios.

Josh:
Because, I mean, 20% of the fund being in Anthropic, and he's been in it,

Josh:
what, EJAS, for over a year now? Like he invested early 2025?

Josh:
That's like, being invested in Anthropic is like dog years. Each year is like

Josh:
seven. So a year in Anthropic feels like a tremendous return.

Josh:
And that's a huge readjustment to his portfolio when we see this?

Josh:
Because now it feels like we have a much more clear picture.

Ejaaz:
Yeah. So the first time he invested either privately or through the fund in

Ejaaz:
a VC investment in Anthropic was in March 2025.

Ejaaz:
That was when Anthropic was worth $60 billion.

Ejaaz:
Double digits. Now of Anthropic's recent valuation, they're valued at $965 billion.

Ejaaz:
That is a 15x markup. And if you do the math, as we're showing on the screen

Ejaaz:
today, his liquid portfolio, so that's the thing that's reported in the 13F,

Ejaaz:
as of his recent 13F filings was worth $13.7 billion,

Ejaaz:
with the anthropic stake that he supposedly has as reported by the Wall Street

Ejaaz:
Journal, adds another $7 billion,

Ejaaz:
bringing him to a total AUM of $20 billion. Now, if you're,

Ejaaz:
how crazy this is. Bill Ackman, one of the most famed investors in the entire

Ejaaz:
world who's been in this game for 30 to 40 years.

Ejaaz:
His fund is worth just around $20 billion, Pershing Capital.

Ejaaz:
Leopold's been in the game for about a year and a half.

Ejaaz:
And this guy is 24 years old. He has zero, and I must emphasize,

Ejaaz:
zero investing experience, right?

Ejaaz:
But he's made some of the most amazing calls ever. And the craziest part about

Ejaaz:
all of this, and I've said this on previous episodes, is that he gave us the

Ejaaz:
entire thesis in a 65-page.

Ejaaz:
AI essay about a year and a half ago when he started his fund,

Ejaaz:
Situational Awareness, called Situational Awareness, that broke down his entire trade.

Ejaaz:
He even described how the money will rotate from semiconductors and infrastructures

Ejaaz:
specifically into other bottleneck constraints.

Ejaaz:
And that's the trade that's playing out today. So it's just extremely impressive.

Ejaaz:
And that tells me where the rest of the money is flowing. If he's bearish NVIDIA,

Ejaaz:
money's going to power, memory, but also he wants to invest in the mines themselves.

Ejaaz:
Screw the picks and shovels, invest in the mines, and Anthropoc is his favorite bet.

Josh:
This seems like the trend. And I think this is probably a little bit ahead of his time.

Josh:
Again as always but it seems like the new trend is pivoting away from the bottleneck

Josh:
thesis over the last what 12 months or so it's been everyone's trying to find

Josh:
the bottlenecks where are they it's in the precious metals it's in the memory

Josh:
it's in ram it's in all these

Josh:
these things that people perceive to be bottlenecks and it's true and that run

Josh:
has happened but it seems as if those are getting close to

Josh:
more fairly priced everyone kind of understands the business they understand

Josh:
the market they understand the revenues that are projected forward and they

Josh:
kind of have a reasonable valuation so a lot of that value has been captured

Josh:
the next rotation is what we're interested in it's where does the money flow

Josh:
after this as you mentioned land power shell kind of the physical infrastructure

Josh:
this seems to be directionally correct

Josh:
when we think about the companies that are most important moving forward when

Josh:
you think about the things most critical to ai it's the actual physical build

Josh:
out it's it's what xai has been doing when you look at xai the company or spacex

Josh:
i should say which is now publicly traded

Josh:
where does all of the revenue come from it has absolutely nothing to do with

Josh:
rocket ships it's the ai build out look at the deal this time with anthropic

Josh:
look at the deal this time with google those account for more than starlink

Josh:
and starship and their entire satellite business combined there's clearly a

Josh:
tremendous amount of value

Josh:
a huge amount of demand and then the question now shifts to who are the people

Josh:
that are building this okay spacex is the obvious answer spacex

Josh:
I mean, after hours last night, he traded at $230 a share. That's $3.1 trillion

Josh:
In value. And we're going to have an entire episode about SpaceX this week because

Josh:
my God, what a run. They just closed the cursor acquisition.

Josh:
They're now valued at $3 trillion.

Josh:
Elon made more money in a day than Warren Buffett did in his whole career.

Josh:
So that is a whole separate thing. But what are they best at?

Josh:
They're best at that hardware infrastructure, at developing the machines that build the machines.

Josh:
And that is where we think, based on Leopold's direction, based on just general

Josh:
trends, that's where the money heads to. So what does that actually look like

Josh:
Ejaz physically manifest? Who are the companies involved?

Josh:
Who is there at the rotation ready to just receive this hot ball of money that's flowing around?

Ejaaz:
Yeah, so it's a lot of the unsexy infrastructure companies, as you mentioned.

Ejaaz:
One popular name that's been passed around over the last month is Marvel.

Ejaaz:
Marvel is the company that Jensen Huang went on stage at Computex,

Ejaaz:
which is like a major AI conference two weeks ago in Taiwan.

Ejaaz:
And he said, this is the next trillion dollar company.

Ejaaz:
Three months prior to him making that statement, NVIDIA had made a one and a

Ejaaz:
half billion dollar investment in Marvel.

Ejaaz:
I don't know where the lines are in terms of like insider trading or market

Ejaaz:
manipulation at this point, but the stock did pump 70% subsequently after he made that statement.

Ejaaz:
I think it's easy to call a top on AI infrastructure right now.

Ejaaz:
And if you think about previous financial crisis, like in 2008,

Ejaaz:
there was a lot of levered positions. There was a lot of financial and market manipulation.

Ejaaz:
We don't quite see the same here yet.

Ejaaz:
And I'll tell you what the distinct differences are. Number one,

Ejaaz:
there are people paying for the products that these companies are creating.

Ejaaz:
So there are real customers buying the products. Back in the dot-com boom,

Ejaaz:
back in the financial crisis, you don't really have this. And then the second thing is.

Ejaaz:
We physically, by the laws of physics, can't lever up right now because we're

Ejaaz:
constrained by human capital.

Ejaaz:
What I mean by that is no matter how much money you raise or throw at the thing,

Ejaaz:
you can't build data centers fast enough. You can't scale memory chips fast

Ejaaz:
enough. You can't build the power lines and scale the energy grid and the infrastructure fast enough.

Ejaaz:
We don't have enough men on the ground. We don't have the capacity to do that.

Ejaaz:
There are laws, regulations, and a ton of red tape that is currently blocking you.

Ejaaz:
So what you have here is an advantage, in my opinion, which is you can view

Ejaaz:
where the money's gonna go, right? So you think that the picks and shovels trade

Ejaaz:
is overtraded or it's overcrowded.

Ejaaz:
That money's gonna flow into power. It's gonna flow into data networking like

Ejaaz:
Astero Labs. It's gonna flow into a bunch of these different companies.

Ejaaz:
And so you need to start thinking, hmm, okay, when will these contracts start to be materialized?

Ejaaz:
When will these chip fabs end up being created? When will SpaceX's rockets start

Ejaaz:
being launched into space, releasing his AI-1 satellites and harvesting the

Ejaaz:
sun's energy to train AI models?

Ejaaz:
What is that timeline? And then the bet I'm taking at least is like I'm investing

Ejaaz:
accordingly based on that.

Ejaaz:
Again, not investment advice, but I just it's how I generally see the money

Ejaaz:
flowing because it's how we've seen it flow from general AI stocks into the

Ejaaz:
semiconductor infrastructure trades, which we've seen over the last year and a half.

Josh:
And if we scroll down a little bit in this artifact we we see that story playing

Josh:
out in his portfolio where it shows

Josh:
the ownership stake that he has on a relative basis the number one category

Josh:
what is it it's power it's energy second to that it's the memory and then it's

Josh:
the the clouds and the gpu miners it's the actual physical infrastructure he wants to

Josh:
own core weave the neo clouds he wants to own the the miners who have switched

Josh:
over to clouds he wants to just own that physical infra because that's where

Josh:
that the true bottleneck is and so sure there's smaller parts along the way.

Josh:
Like you mentioned, the actual build out, the actual hardware,

Josh:
the physical manufacturing of these data centers is such a challenging thing.

Josh:
And it's the biggest bottleneck, if anything, just to get the permits to go build it.

Josh:
Who's solving this problem? Well, SpaceX is trying to put them into outer space.

Josh:
Who's solving the human problem? Well, Tesla is trying to build humanoid robots.

Josh:
But both of those things are a pretty long way out. So in the intermediary,

Josh:
there's a lot of opportunity in white space.

Josh:
And that's what he's going for. So as we start to wrap up this episode,

Josh:
there's like one last thing I think we probably want to mention,

Josh:
which is the subtle nuances that exist in his portfolio that I think are a little

Josh:
surprising and we didn't highlight before.

Josh:
For anyone who's looking to go a little bit deeper, a little more alpha,

Josh:
a lot of it comes in optical and like kind of lower down the stack technology.

Josh:
Ejaz, I know you've been in the weeds about this. How does it work?

Josh:
What is his position? What is his thinking around, I guess, optics in general?

Ejaaz:
Well, if you just generally look at his portfolio position that we're showing

Ejaaz:
on the screen here, CoreWeave and Iron are basically some of the top neocloud providers.

Ejaaz:
So what I mean by that is think of Amazon Web Services, like they create cloud

Ejaaz:
services for any internet company that wants to create a thing.

Ejaaz:
That's what these companies do for any AI company. They have the GPU infrastructure,

Ejaaz:
they set it up for you, they do all the networking such that you don't need

Ejaaz:
to focus on it. You can just train your models, get access to compute,

Ejaaz:
and don't worry about any of the other kind of stuff.

Ejaaz:
CoreWeave and Iron have been Leopold's biggest positions since he started the

Ejaaz:
fund, or he's had very concentrated positions, and they have provided him the biggest returns.

Ejaaz:
Now, I think it's worth pointing out that he still has the biggest positions

Ejaaz:
focused in these two companies. In fact, he's privately invested in a company

Ejaaz:
called Core Scientific, which helps unlock a lot of Core Weave's infrastructure.

Ejaaz:
Provision, which means that he's effectively taken a levered bet on CoreWeave.

Ejaaz:
And the fact that he still has major positions in these companies tells us that

Ejaaz:
that trade, in his opinion, typically isn't over yet.

Ejaaz:
And then if you look at cores and light, these are all optical fiber providers.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you want to understand what that means at a very basic level,

Ejaaz:
typically if you need a semiconductor or GPU chips to speak to each other,

Ejaaz:
requires like a lot of copper wires. And at some point when you have so many of these GPUs,

Ejaaz:
copper wires get overheated. There's a lot of heat resistance.

Ejaaz:
You lose a lot of energy. It becomes extremely inefficient. You know what isn't as inefficient?

Ejaaz:
If you start using optical fibers. And that is kind of like the next leap,

Ejaaz:
the next iteration to build data centers, to network and connect these GPUs,

Ejaaz:
which will allow much quicker data transfer.

Ejaaz:
That's much cheaper, much more cost efficient. And you can end up making more

Ejaaz:
money on the inference or the training compute that you provide.

Ejaaz:
That's another, it's very infrastructure heavy is the point that I'm making.

Ejaaz:
So he's invested in those companies and invested in them at the power level

Ejaaz:
as well. And I think, you know, it's very unsexy to say and talk about,

Ejaaz:
but that is inevitably where the money is falling right now, in my opinion.

Josh:
Yeah, the copper thing was interesting for me because I learned how critical

Josh:
copper has been recently.

Josh:
For a lot of the close data transfer, copper is the only material that anybody wants.

Josh:
And the only time you stop using copper is when it becomes unviable.

Josh:
When you have to transfer data over too long of a distance, or like you mentioned,

Josh:
it gets too hot that's when you switch over to fiber but the combination of

Josh:
these two seems to be all that anybody wants so it's been interesting watching the copper trade

Josh:
as well even though leopold's not really invested in oh yeah you got the copper

Josh:
futures pulled up copper if you go to that one-year chart it's probably looking

Josh:
pretty strong yeah it's like a very strong

Josh:
commodity here because everyone needs it that is the the single most important

Josh:
critical element when transferring high bandwidth data over a very short distance

Josh:
but fiber is the next one so that's been an interesting thing to watch play

Josh:
out i think the materials play is always interesting that is the the base of

Josh:
all base layers is like what is the core material that goes in in order to get intelligence out

Josh:
copper's one of them of course lithium there's a whole bunch of them i think we

Ejaaz:
Need to do uh we're due for that episode material episode josh i i think we need to do this.

Josh:
Um we should go down there because you know what leopold hasn't made his way

Josh:
down there yet and maybe we could front run him for the next rotational thesis

Josh:
we could go all the way down to the bottom of the stack we could go visit the

Josh:
copper mines see how they're making all this stuff happen

Josh:
but i think that is generally speaking the next rotation is from these perceived

Josh:
smaller bottlenecks into the real hard thing which is the hardware and building

Josh:
out these large data centers

Josh:
And whoever's capable of building out the data centers will collect all the

Josh:
money. We just saw what happened with SpaceX, how much money they were able

Josh:
to make because of how in demand these data centers are to have them online.

Josh:
And anyone who's capable of spinning them up, of producing enough,

Josh:
of producing power GPUs. If you could create GPUs with power,

Josh:
you are going to make all the money. And that's kind of where Leopold's at.

Josh:
I guess in summary, we're not in a bubble.

Josh:
Leopold has rotated, should probably still copy trade. Is that right? Does that sound okay?

Ejaaz:
Yeah. Yeah, I'll admit, when I read his 13F, I was like, you're bearish the

Ejaaz:
most valuable company in the world that has like demand projected into 2029.

Ejaaz:
Like that is the worst take ever.

Ejaaz:
And now I see this raise and I'm like, wow, if Nvidia continues to raise external

Ejaaz:
debt, sell equity potentially in the future, if this trend continues,

Ejaaz:
Leopold might be right again.

Ejaaz:
And his portfolio will eclipse the best traders and the best investment funds in the world.

Ejaaz:
I don't know, the guy keeps winning and it's very impressive to see.

Josh:
Yeah. So, I mean, here's the thing is he's never needed to sell anything.

Josh:
Dude's just been long only his whole life. So we'll see how,

Josh:
like you talk about, we talked about Bill Ackman earlier in this episode and

Josh:
dude's been around for 30 years and turns out being around for 30 years is actually

Josh:
harder than making like a 30X.

Josh:
If you can actually sustain this growth, if you can learn how to push the sell

Josh:
button, learn how to kind of hedge against risk, we're starting to see that.

Josh:
I mean, those $9 billion in shorts, he's not actually exposed

Josh:
with $9 billion of cash sitting there short that is through options that is

Josh:
through some leverage so it's

Josh:
not a direct one-to-one short but it's fascinating to watch we will see

Josh:
i am going to continue copy trading the boy leopold because dude has just been

Josh:
correct he is just not wrong so of his entire

Ejaaz:
Portfolio josh what is the one stock that you'd be buying from him.

Josh:
I like the energy stocks i'm a big energy guy i think no matter what even in

Josh:
the case that ai demand slows down energy is still very much in high demand

Josh:
and And the demands of it from the general world are going up only.

Josh:
So even in the absence of AI, we need more energy. We need more electricity.

Josh:
Bloom Energy, a lot of companies that are building electricity throughput,

Josh:
I think, are the ones that I'm most excited about because they seem to be the

Josh:
most hedged. What is the singular trend that is not going to stop no matter

Josh:
what is our demand for energy, electricity, and power?

Josh:
And companies like Bloom Energy deliver on that. So that's the companies that

Josh:
I'm most excited about being long in. when I invest it's on a very long time

Josh:
frame I don't really like to trade much so that's why and that's kind of how

Josh:
I think of things what about you do you have any favorites

Ejaaz:
I uh this is a cheat answer but it's wherever the intersection of what Jensen's

Ejaaz:
investing in and whatever Leopold is investing in so the company that I'm like,

Ejaaz:
copy trading is Marvel, which isn't something that Leopold currently owns,

Ejaaz:
but it does sit very firmly in his optical fiber and power investment bet.

Ejaaz:
And it's the one that Jensen put $1.5 billion behind. I've just noted that whatever

Ejaaz:
Jensen invests in via NVIDIA, whether it's Intel, CoreWeave,

Ejaaz:
or whatever it is, has just gone up only.

Ejaaz:
And so that's currently where I'm at right now. I own some CoreWeave as well,

Ejaaz:
which both Jensen and Leopold have been extremely bullish.

Josh:
Home so dude marvel up 270 in six months i think this is a good pro tip when

Josh:
people like jensen when people like trump they say go buy this stock

Josh:
you should probably go buy it it's paid off in pretty big ways like intel is

Josh:
up how many multiples from the time he bought it marvel is up how many multiples

Josh:
from jensen it's like these guys know what they're talking about or at least

Josh:
they have the ability to influence the outcomes of these companies and in that sense

Josh:
it has been a very wild ride i hope it continues

Josh:
i hope this keeps going it seems like it's probable to keep going

Josh:
i think we're all still long we're all still pretty optimistic and excited and

Josh:
we'll just continue to evaluate day by day

Josh:
coming up next is a spacex episode which i think we're very excited about spacex

Josh:
has been the biggest ipo ever they just closed their deal with cursor and there are a lot of new updates

Josh:
and interesting takes i believe on how to navigate this ipo how the unlock schedule

Josh:
is going to work where all the shares are and and how this is going to play

Josh:
out over the next six months i think is something a lot of people may be interested

Josh:
so that one's coming up next

Josh:
any final thoughts before we wrap up here on leopold portfolio update

Ejaaz:
I'm curious about the skeptics that are listening to this that think that everything

Ejaaz:
we've just said is incorrect and might potentially be wrong um tell us where

Ejaaz:
we're wrong like i'm genuinely curious like i've i stared at the 25 billion,

Ejaaz:
nvidia raised news yesterday and i was like i want to hate on this but,

Ejaaz:
Look at it, looking at it financially, this seems like a sound thing.

Ejaaz:
Like, why wouldn't you raise debt, like risk-free money? Like that makes complete

Ejaaz:
sense. Like borrow other people's money and spend that versus like selling your

Ejaaz:
own equity. Obviously that makes sense. Keep more equity, earn more money in the future.

Ejaaz:
But if there's something that we're missing, if there's a pattern that you're

Ejaaz:
seeing that we aren't seeing, that we haven't spoken about, leave us a comment,

Ejaaz:
DM us, do whatever you can to get in contact with us.

Ejaaz:
And then if you'll listen to this as well, and if you enjoyed this episode,

Ejaaz:
if you're one of the majority that enjoyed this episode, please make sure you're

Ejaaz:
subscribed to us. Turn on notifications if it's on YouTube. It helps us out massively.

Ejaaz:
Do the same on Spotify. Do the same on Apple Music or wherever you're listening to us.

Ejaaz:
We also have a newsletter that goes out twice a week. We put out an essay.

Ejaaz:
That's the first essay of this week is coming out tomorrow. And then we're going

Ejaaz:
to have the five weekly highlights that we always do at the end of the week.

Ejaaz:
We are doing anything and everything to keep you up to date with everything

Ejaaz:
that's going on with AI. And with that, I believe the episode's over. It's done.

Josh:
That's it. Well, thank you all so much for watching. And yeah, let us know.

Josh:
Share with your friends if you enjoyed this episode leave a comment and yeah

Josh:
I think that's everything so thank you so much for watching as always and we

Josh:
will see you in the next one

Ejaaz:
See you guys.