Limitless: An AI Podcast

Ejaaz:
For years, the battle between open source and centralized AI models has been very one-sided.

Ejaaz:
Anthropic open air has always dominated the field until this week where Moonshot

Ejaaz:
Labs, an AI lab out of China, has finally released their next model,

Ejaaz:
Kimi K3, and it is Fable 5 worthy.

Ejaaz:
Now, the craziest part about this is Chinese and open source models in general

Ejaaz:
have been behind American frontier labs. They haven't been able to close the

Ejaaz:
gap. Dario recently said that that gap is roughly around eight months,

Ejaaz:
having closed from about a year.

Ejaaz:
Today, with Kimi K3, that model has closed it to today.

Ejaaz:
It is as good at one-shotting visual prompts as Fable 5 is. It's amazing at

Ejaaz:
reasoning in general. And we're going to get into a bunch of cool demos that

Ejaaz:
we see on our screen today.

Ejaaz:
Other big news in open source, Thinking Machine Labs, which,

Ejaaz:
funnily enough, raised the largest seed round ever, $2 billion,

Ejaaz:
headed by ex-OpenAI CTO Miro Murati, released their first model called Inkling.

Ejaaz:
It's small, yet pretty mighty. We're going to get into that.

Ejaaz:
And then OpenAI themselves have revealed some secretive details about their

Ejaaz:
new hardware device. If you've watched the show at all, you know Joshua and

Ejaaz:
I are obsessed with this.

Ejaaz:
We're excited to get into the details and show you what is coming soon.

Josh:
Yeah, so to start, we have a new king on the block, and that comes in the form

Josh:
of Kimi K3. I mean, this very much feels like...

Josh:
I wouldn't say the DeepSeek moment, but something somewhat familiar in the sense

Josh:
that this is a really novel, leading edge, open source model coming out of the Kimmy team.

Josh:
And it was paired with this really lovely launch video that actually.

Josh:
I was shocked that it was coming from this lab because this looks like something

Josh:
Apple would release as a product launch video.

Josh:
It was beautiful. The sound design was amazing. The visuals were great.

Josh:
And it's funny, they launched this before they even officially launched the

Josh:
model. In fact, at the time of recording, they haven't even officially stated

Josh:
that the model is live but

Josh:
it's available it is available in the model picker for you to go and test it

Josh:
now the model comes in the form of about a 2.8 trillion parameter model which

Josh:
if you listen to the episode yesterday featuring grok that's about double what

Josh:
grok 4.5 was in terms of parameter count

Josh:
based on the early reviews that i've seen a lot of people have been using this

Josh:
model kind of early it seems like this is pretty incredible um it seems like

Josh:
people have been able to do really impressive long horizon tasks they've been able to do really

Josh:
impressive coding generation gaming generation 3d generation and a lot of people are comparing this to

Josh:
close to a fable worthy model and early testers they put it above gpt 5.6 actually

Josh:
on coding and almost fable worthy at coding which puts it in a really solid

Josh:
spot because the pricing of this thing is going to be very low and the quality

Josh:
of it is incredibly high and to

Josh:
our point yesterday talking about the two frontiers there is the

Josh:
intelligence frontier and there is the cost Frontier, this is placing a new

Josh:
point on that Pareto curve of cost and intelligence at a part of the curve that

Josh:
I don't think anyone's ever made to before.

Josh:
This is like very much a frontier model in terms of cost per intelligence.

Josh:
It's really impressive.

Ejaaz:
I think this tweet that I have over here summarizes it the best.

Ejaaz:
He goes, the more I test K3, the more it feels like another DeepSeek R1 moment.

Ejaaz:
It is often Fable level, maybe a little worse, but consistently better than 5.6.

Ejaaz:
And that's a recurring theme across a lot of different takes from early testers,

Ejaaz:
that it's not quite as good as Fable. It's as good as Fable when it comes to

Ejaaz:
certain things, but not everything.

Ejaaz:
But it is certainly better or on par with GPT 5.6, which is a bold claim,

Ejaaz:
obviously, because OpenAI has invested billions and billions of dollars into

Ejaaz:
their thing. Now, enough of us claiming theory. Let's talk about some actual examples.

Ejaaz:
So on your screen right now, you're looking at the promotional video from the

Ejaaz:
Moonshot Labs themselves.

Ejaaz:
Now, what I'm going to shift to right now is Kimi K3 one-shotting the video entirely from scratch.

Josh:
Whoa. And building it from scratch. Oh, that's really cool.

Ejaaz:
Exactly. This is one single prompt. It was fed the promotional video that Moonshot

Ejaaz:
Labs themselves created from scratch using humans and all that kind of stuff.

Ejaaz:
And it only took 25 minutes to do.

Ejaaz:
Now, rumor, the cost to create this thing. Josh, actually, take a guess.

Ejaaz:
How much did it cost to create this video?

Josh:
Oh, my God. One shot. probably nothing right because the cost per million tokens

Josh:
is 95 cents i think so what would this take maybe five million tokens or say

Josh:
five five to ten dollars no more than 10 bucks.

Ejaaz:
It costs under 10 bucks, which is just insane.

Josh:
Oh, that's so cool. It's insane.

Ejaaz:
Now, like if you have used products from Anthropic or OpenAire that are relevant

Ejaaz:
to artifacts, the visual diagrammatics that they help you create,

Ejaaz:
it takes a while. It takes a couple of bits of prompting, sequential prompting.

Ejaaz:
With Kimi, it seems that it could just one-shot this completely.

Ejaaz:
And it's not just one example I have.

Ejaaz:
I have quite a few. If you look at this, you're looking at a 3D simulation.

Ejaaz:
Now, you would be excused if you thought that this was Fable 5 worthy,

Ejaaz:
because if you rewind a few episodes ago where we covered all of Fable 5's cool

Ejaaz:
demos and stuff, we showed you a Hogwarts demo, a bunch of other things like that.

Ejaaz:
It was of the same quality and par. Kimi K3 can now compete on the same level.

Ejaaz:
And it's not just for simulations. It's recreated Mario Kart from scratch.

Ejaaz:
Now, granted, it looks like Minecraft, but, you know, what AI model doesn't do that?

Ejaaz:
And you could imagine with a few more prompts and like visual graphics added,

Ejaaz:
it could get to, you know, maybe not a AAA, but like a AA type game vibe.

Ejaaz:
So the point is, it's a very impressive model and it's physically accurate.

Ejaaz:
It gets the physics of how things work, the mechanics of wings that you're seeing

Ejaaz:
On your screen right now, how it works. It nails it.

Ejaaz:
Now, where it falls or where it's a little lackluster is general reasoning,

Ejaaz:
writing and coding in general. Now, coding for visual prompts, it's very good.

Ejaaz:
Coding for hard specifically developer tasks, Fable 5 is still good,

Ejaaz:
but it matches the likes of GPT 5.6 Terra and Luna.

Ejaaz:
Maybe not quite Sol, but Terra and Luna and certainly Sol at least on medium

Ejaaz:
effort. So if you're looking for a comparison as to whether you should use this

Ejaaz:
model, it's pretty up there and you should be surprised that they've been able

Ejaaz:
to close the gap so quickly.

Ejaaz:
The final thing I'll say is on cost, it is super cheap. It is under a dollar

Ejaaz:
input tokens, and I think it is a couple dollars output tokens.

Ejaaz:
Again, none of this is officially confirmed. Just yet we're getting like leaks

Ejaaz:
as we're recording this episode.

Ejaaz:
That would price it at the same value as sonnet five or sonnet the sonnet model

Ejaaz:
from from claude themselves so we're not even talking about opus level here

Ejaaz:
we're talking about like sonnet cost which is like cheapest chips

Josh:
Yeah very impressive i mean it's funny as we cover this model i think about the open claw community

Josh:
and people who use these long-running agentic tasks i don't know where they

Josh:
are now i haven't seen many of the open clock community publicly in a while

Josh:
but this is such a dream model for them where it is so cheap it is so capable

Josh:
of these long-running agentic tasks it has all the visual understanding it seems

Josh:
like a very good companion

Josh:
and this seems like a legitimate kind of dent in the moat of these companies

Josh:
that are kind of holding the frontier of that pareto curve in terms of cost

Josh:
in terms of intelligence so it's a really impressive model coming out of china

Josh:
i'd love to know how this came to be

Josh:
what types of models were distilled if any kind of whose ip are you taking here

Josh:
whose stolen gpus are you training this on listen.

Ejaaz:
Josh that's actually important context right you you raise a good point because

Ejaaz:
um moonshot labs the guys that created this model have been accused by not just

Ejaaz:
Anthropite, but also OpenAI and Google for distilling their frontier models.

Ejaaz:
So we have no proof whether they've done the same thing here,

Ejaaz:
but maybe it can be assumed. I don't know.

Josh:
I mean, yeah, I find it hard to believe that it's anything otherwise than they've

Josh:
just distilled the frontier models and turned them into cheaper models that are more capable.

Josh:
It seems like this is kind of well known, that they have smuggled GPUs into

Josh:
the country, that they have like kind of,

Josh:
nudge the numbers on how much the training costs were on a relative basis where

Josh:
they say it's a lot cheaper than it actually is

Josh:
there's a lot of malpractice going on behind these models which is why it's

Josh:
a little difficult to support them but man on just a pure open weight basis

Josh:
for them to publish a model like this it's pretty impressive and i think a lot

Josh:
of people are going to get a lot of use out of this so,

Josh:
i am going to go and try this i'm going to check my model picker after this

Josh:
just to test maybe we'll have a follow-up episode showing some of the demos

Josh:
all the interesting things you could do with it but if you are watching this

Josh:
chances are it is live it's available. Go try it out and let us know what you think.

Josh:
That brings us to our second topic of the day. And this one I am particularly

Josh:
excited about because, Ejaz, if you remember, 18 months ago,

Josh:
after leaving OpenAI, the co-founder of OpenAI, Mur Murati, she left and she

Josh:
went to go start a company named Thinking Machines.

Josh:
She is one of many co-founders who have left the company, unfortunately,

Josh:
for better or worse, and went off and tried to do her own thing.

Josh:
During this process, she raised the largest seed round in venture capital history.

Josh:
Now, seed rounds, generally speaking, I remember back in the day, a seed round of like,

Josh:
a couple million dollars if you raise like five to ten million dollars.

Josh:
That's a remarkable seed round. This was two billion dollars.

Josh:
And for those not familiar, the seed round is the first money into the company.

Josh:
You have an idea and you say, I'm going to go build this idea and an investor

Josh:
gives you some money to do it.

Josh:
She raised two billion dollars at a twelve billion dollar valuation right off

Josh:
the bat from companies like Andreessen Horowitz, NVIDIA, AMD and Jane Street.

Josh:
These are the largest ones in the game.

Josh:
So for the last 18 or so months, we have been asking ourselves the question,

Josh:
well, what are they actually working on?

Josh:
Two billion dollars is a tremendous amount of money to go off and build something

Josh:
and mira and the team are clearly very talented because they were one of the

Josh:
day ones at open ai who were building the gpt

Josh:
early gpt days and as of today we finally have an answer and it comes in the

Josh:
form of this model named ship shipling inkling what is this what did they actually release.

Ejaaz:
It to be fair it doesn't roll off the tongue but it's called inkling and it is a

Josh:
Model that falls.

Ejaaz:
Yeah yeah it's a model that falls just under a trillion parameters in size,

Ejaaz:
so relatively small given the landscape today.

Ejaaz:
But would it surprise you if I said it's a pretty unremarkable model that is

Ejaaz:
remarkable in a very specific way that not many people see? So let me explain what I mean by that.

Ejaaz:
It's trained on about 45 trillion tokens of text, image, video, and audio.

Ejaaz:
Now, the reason why that is pretty cool is that it's completely omni-model.

Ejaaz:
It's like a multi-modal model that you can send text to, you can send audio

Ejaaz:
to, you can speak to it, doesn't interrupt you.

Ejaaz:
It's that type of model that is very intuitive. It feels very human.

Ejaaz:
And Mira Murati released a really interesting blog post earlier this week,

Ejaaz:
which described her vision for Thinking Machine Labs.

Ejaaz:
It's not to be the frontier LLM, it's to be the frontier companion for humans.

Ejaaz:
And so she's building these models in a very specific way. So when we look at

Ejaaz:
the model itself, it was trained in under nine months.

Ejaaz:
It is quite good at reasoning. It is okay at coding.

Ejaaz:
It is nowhere near Fable 5 worthy. But where it gets super powerful is if you take their model,

Ejaaz:
And then you fine tune it for your own specific task department or team.

Ejaaz:
So what that looks like is, and there's a live example of this actually happening

Ejaaz:
right now, where you can take this model and let's say you operate like one

Ejaaz:
of the world's top trading hedge funds, right?

Ejaaz:
You could feed it data. You could run it locally, by the way,

Ejaaz:
feed it data, all encrypted,

Ejaaz:
train the model to understand how your team company operates,

Ejaaz:
what your investment theses are, feed it maybe even proprietary information

Ejaaz:
because, by the way, this model is completely open-weight.

Ejaaz:
So, you know, open sources come back to America. Well done, Mira Morati.

Ejaaz:
And you can hyper-focus this model on your daily trading activities if you are

Ejaaz:
in that hedge fund position.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you don't believe me, there is a live example of this actually happening

Ejaaz:
from none other than thinking machines themselves.

Ejaaz:
They're working reportedly pretty closely with Bridgewater Capital,

Ejaaz:
which is one of the biggest funds in the entire world using their Tinker API to fine-tune models.

Ejaaz:
So the long story short is this model isn't meant to be remarkable on its own.

Ejaaz:
It's meant to be taken by you, whether you're a startup founder or a hobbyist

Ejaaz:
or whatever that might be, and fine-tune it to do the specific tasks that you can do.

Ejaaz:
If you end up doing that, you end up with a more powerful model that is less

Ejaaz:
generalized and more specific than a classic anthropic or open AI model.

Ejaaz:
And it is way, way cheaper than if you use any of these other generalized models.

Ejaaz:
And as we've spoken about on yesterday's episode and a lot of episodes recently,

Ejaaz:
actually, cheaper models might actually end up being the models that are used

Ejaaz:
more than the intelligent models themselves.

Josh:
Yeah, I think this is a really interesting angle. And I'm excited to see that

Josh:
this is the way that they're going. They're not trying to compete with the frontier

Josh:
labs. In fact, to use their own words, they said, it's not the strongest overall

Josh:
model available today, open or closed. So they're very much aware that they are not on the frontier.

Josh:
The interesting thing is addressing this common concern that we see talked about a lot.

Josh:
If you remember, there's this viral clip on CNBC a couple weeks ago with Palantir CEO Alex Karp.

Josh:
And he was describing how close frontier tools are too expensive.

Josh:
And they have very somewhat murky IP protection where you kind of feed these

Josh:
models. your contacts, and then perhaps they go off and use them to train new models.

Josh:
And what Thinking Machines is doing is basically building this infrastructure

Josh:
for you to build and own the IP custom to you. And I think this is the interesting

Josh:
thing where when you think about monetization for a company like this, they raised $2 billion.

Josh:
Now they're just giving away their technology for free. That's the reality to

Josh:
an extent because this model is open source. You can actually go and download

Josh:
it and use it for your own, but they have this platform called Tinker.

Josh:
That's meant to hyper optimize these models specific for your use case with

Josh:
a much less amount of data than traditional models would.

Josh:
So traditionally, these models need like terabytes of data in order to go through

Josh:
this reinforcement learning process and to become hyper specifically good at a certain task.

Josh:
This model and using this Tinker product, you're actually able to feed it a

Josh:
lot less context to get a very specific outcome.

Josh:
So if you want to train it to be a financial wizard, like Blackwater was perhaps

Josh:
doing, or if you want to train to be a professional private chef,

Josh:
if that's what you're doing.

Josh:
It requires a lot less context and you could kind of mold it to the form that

Josh:
you want specific to you and i think that's a really powerful thing this is

Josh:
mostly focused on consumer and enterprise but very specific use cases for it and i think this is a,

Josh:
novel angle in the sense that a lot of the frontier labs their general purpose

Josh:
you go to them with any question you want and they will answer to the best of

Josh:
their abilities generally better than everyone else but this lab will allow

Josh:
you to do a very specific answer

Josh:
with a very low cost using open weight models without any potential leaking

Josh:
of any of your intellectual property.

Josh:
And I think that's a pretty novel use case and really cool to see out of the

Josh:
Thinking Machines team.

Ejaaz:
I think an obvious question to come from this as well is how were they able

Ejaaz:
to achieve this? Well, I'm pleased to say that I think the Chinese are getting

Ejaaz:
a little taste of their own medicine.

Ejaaz:
What I'm showing on the screen here is in order to train this model,

Ejaaz:
thinking machines used DeepSeq's V3 architecture.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you've heard of DeepSeq before, it comes from an AI lab in China,

Ejaaz:
funnily enough, a hedge fund that built their Chinese model called DeepSeq.

Ejaaz:
And it uses this architectural mixture of experts. I'm not going to bore you

Ejaaz:
with the details, but basically, you can have a really large model and only

Ejaaz:
utilize the necessary parts of the model when you're answering a prompt.

Ejaaz:
It's way more efficient.

Ejaaz:
It's way more cheaper. And it allows you to customize it way more.

Ejaaz:
That's how they were able to pull this off.

Ejaaz:
And it's kind of nice to see this reverse distillation. And I say that justingly

Ejaaz:
because, obviously, all the Chinese models are open source.

Ejaaz:
But moving on, Miro Morati is my favorite topic.

Ejaaz:
Mira Marathi's former boss has been up to some good and some no good.

Ejaaz:
If you watched our previous episode earlier this week, you'll know that Sam's

Ejaaz:
in a bit of hot water right now.

Ejaaz:
The big boys at Apple are suing Sam and OpenAI for stealing hardware trade secrets

Ejaaz:
to build their new AI hardware device.

Ejaaz:
And a question on Josh and I's minds was, what on earth is this device?

Ejaaz:
Josh, Maybe we have some light now. Can you give us some details?

Josh:
Oh my God. How many times have we spoken about this on the show?

Josh:
We got to be approaching like double digits now. This is probably the 10th time

Josh:
we've talked about this freaking device.

Josh:
We still don't know what it looks like. I am so desperate to know.

Josh:
I've never wanted to hold a product in my hand so bad in my entire life than

Josh:
I do want to hold this Johnny Ive OpenAI collab device.

Josh:
And it of course has not come without its troubles. They are currently experiencing

Josh:
lawsuits. I'm wondering if those lawsuits have impacted the trajectory of this

Josh:
suite and family of products that they're going to launch.

Josh:
But we do seem to have somewhat of a close confirmation to what the very first

Josh:
device in this family of devices will look like and when we'll actually be able

Josh:
to get our hands on it now mark german who

Josh:
some people might know as the apple leaker he is kind of the guy who you go

Josh:
to when you want to know about leaks he has very reliable sources he is generally

Josh:
right when he publishes these things for his publication i think he works with

Josh:
bloomberg i'm pretty sure that's where he publishes all of these and

Josh:
we have an idea of what this looks like and drumroll please it is coming in a form of a speaker.

Ejaaz:
Which is interesting.

Josh:
It is described as a screen-free smart speaker that will act as a new type of

Josh:
home computer for the AI era.

Josh:
So it's screenless, which is important to note, but it's certainly not senseless.

Josh:
The idea is that it will have a camera plus these environmental sensors, probably like light.

Josh:
It'll have microphones. It'll have a rechargeable battery, which I found interesting

Josh:
because that means that this will be a portable device.

Josh:
And then, Ijaz, I was asking you about this yesterday, is, does that mean that

Josh:
it's going to be something that fits in my pocket? Like, is this the puck?

Josh:
Or is this going to be, I think, of the Amazon Echo, like that little...

Josh:
Little block that sits on your desk and you could kind of carry it from room

Josh:
to room. I'm kind of now hypothesizing of what this is going to look like.

Ejaaz:
Well, the secret is revealed in this tweet from Mark Gurman and none themselves.

Ejaaz:
He says, as one of his first descriptors of this device, that it's a mobile device.

Ejaaz:
And the idea, if you open up this article and read through it,

Ejaaz:
is he talks about this device being somewhat portable.

Ejaaz:
It's meant to live in your home. It's meant to ingest and listen to everything

Ejaaz:
that is said, the conversations that you have, you can also speak to it.

Ejaaz:
But the goal, the stated goal of what OpenAIR is trying to build here is,

Ejaaz:
A companion, a companion that can sit by your side, that you can speak to,

Ejaaz:
that sounds very human, that understands the work or tasks or goals,

Ejaaz:
whatever you're trying to achieve for that day and over a set number of days,

Ejaaz:
and it can work productively with you.

Ejaaz:
Now, a big question for me is, how different is this from just opening up the

Ejaaz:
ChatGPT app on my phone and speaking to it?

Ejaaz:
And I think I've answered my own question, which is, it is quite different.

Ejaaz:
There is a big delta between having a device that is omnipresent,

Ejaaz:
that is ambient, that listens to everything you say, that can chime in when

Ejaaz:
necessary, like a real human does, like a companion or an advisor or a mentor does,

Ejaaz:
versus having something that is a little more archaic, manual,

Ejaaz:
that you have to trigger when you think of it.

Ejaaz:
And I think this kind of like jump going from kind of like manual devices where

Ejaaz:
you have to click buttons, swipe and go to the specific app versus having this

Ejaaz:
omnipresent artificial in terms.

Ejaaz:
It's funny. It's like I'm describing like the Terminator plot right now.

Ejaaz:
And I'm listening to myself and I'm like, oh, God, like maybe this isn't good for us.

Ejaaz:
But I get that that's where we are moving to. Now, of course,

Ejaaz:
all of this is really exciting to see.

Ejaaz:
But if there is a massive Apple lawsuit looming over their heads,

Ejaaz:
there are grounds for this potentially being delayed. Now, the target date is

Ejaaz:
early 2027, specifically February. Sam wants to ship around 100 million units initially.

Ejaaz:
Josh and I are probably going to buy up 50 million of those units.

Ejaaz:
But the point is that this is going to be really in demand, but it might get

Ejaaz:
delayed to later on in the year if Apple has grounds for them stealing secrets.

Josh:
I really hope not. The reports look like it's going to come out at around $200 to $300.

Josh:
And you have to imagine if they're building a hundred million of these,

Josh:
a couple hundred million of these, it's going to be a fairly simple design.

Josh:
There won't be a ton of moving parts. There won't be a lot of moving pieces.

Josh:
This will kind of be a solid machine is my assumption.

Josh:
If I know anything from my obsession of Johnny AI, his design.

Josh:
Entire goal is to reverse the damage that has been done through the smartphone era in the sense that

Josh:
smartphones have taken so much of our lives away from reality and they've placed

Josh:
them into this digital world and i know he is on a mission hell-bent on reversing that

Josh:
and part of that is removing the screen but the second part of that is trying

Josh:
to make the experience more human and i think we got an early release version

Josh:
and look at this with the new chat model from chat gpt

Josh:
on how conversational it is how it feels very warm and friendly and i expect

Josh:
this to very much be an extension of that

Josh:
in a way it's kind of converging on the voice models and miramirati miramirati's

Josh:
like tinkering model where it will kind of build up this context window about

Josh:
you it will be able to be your personal assistant and allow you to remove yourself

Josh:
away from the matrix that he has,

Josh:
created such a large amount of through his hardware devices almost unintentionally

Josh:
and to me that's super exciting and i cannot wait to get my hands on it in early

Josh:
2027 so we will be keeping our eyes peeled any more rumors you know we're going

Josh:
to talk about it because we can't help but talk about it this is like the 10th

Josh:
time but that is the update on the open ai device coming soon.

Ejaaz:
I i will say that um apple is planning to at least announce their ai hardware

Ejaaz:
devices plural by the end of this year so they might just be doing this whole

Ejaaz:
lawsuit thing just to to front run them.

Ejaaz:
And I know that Apple is working on, I believe, some kind of a disc pendant,

Ejaaz:
AirPods with cameras, as well as some smart glasses. So I'm excited to see these

Ejaaz:
two honestly go at it because the end benefit is us. We get to buy a bunch of

Ejaaz:
cool gadgets and hopefully wear them every day.

Ejaaz:
Moving on to the next topic.

Ejaaz:
Elon Musk, surprise, surprise, is in a bit of trouble.

Ejaaz:
Now, he has this product called Grok Build, which is basically their Claude Code competitor.

Ejaaz:
It is Grok used specifically for coding and building different apps.

Ejaaz:
And some people leaked that XAI's Grok Build CLI, so their API basically,

Ejaaz:
or their front-end interface, was taking people's code,

Ejaaz:
uploading it to private servers for SpaceX AI and then using that data to train new models.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you've ever been in this model game for a while, personal data,

Ejaaz:
privacy, and encryption are incredibly important.

Ejaaz:
Anthropic and Open AI take this very, very seriously because,

Ejaaz:
of course, you want to make sure that they're not taking your personal information

Ejaaz:
that you're imparting to these AI models and using it for nefarious ways or

Ejaaz:
taking advantage of them.

Ejaaz:
Grok, or rather SpaceX AI and Elon were caught doing this And they had to do

Ejaaz:
a lot of damage control, which ended up being, a few days later,

Ejaaz:
them open sourcing the entire Grok build.

Ejaaz:
They apologized and basically said, zero data retention policies are super important

Ejaaz:
where we don't retain any of the data. And if we do, we will be upfront.

Ejaaz:
You can turn this off in settings, but it sounded like it was on by default,

Ejaaz:
which is the warning part.

Ejaaz:
But in order to retaliate, they've said, we've open sourced this entire product,

Ejaaz:
take it, fine tune it, do whatever you want with it, and see the code yourself

Ejaaz:
and see that we're not taking any of your stuff.

Ejaaz:
It's a bit of a roller coaster for them. I'm glad they're being able to do damage

Ejaaz:
control, especially as like Elon is like hurling insults to his enemy at Sam

Ejaaz:
and OpenAI, which arguably haven't done this yet.

Josh:
I respect it. It feels like the early days of Facebook, the move fast and break

Josh:
things where they're just going balls to the wall, full speed.

Josh:
If they make a mistake, they correct it. And in fact, I feel like they really

Josh:
even over-indexed on correcting it.

Josh:
They open source everything and they had zero data retention policies.

Josh:
They really went like fully locked down, almost Apple status,

Josh:
where now there is zero data that is going to cross the line.

Josh:
I think this is going to prove to be a very unique advantage.

Josh:
When you think about the Apple edge, a lot of it has to do with guaranteed privacy of data.

Josh:
And if Grok is going to be the only person who is going to provide that guarantee,

Josh:
that is a huge benefit because remember, they have the cost per token down about

Josh:
as low as it gets. They're on the frontier in terms of cost per intelligence.

Josh:
And now if they have privacy baked in, that's a very compelling product that

Josh:
I think is noteworthy to watch.

Josh:
There is a second bit of news about elon and it is about elon not about his

Josh:
company spacex not about tesla

Josh:
but about elon musk the individual who just acquired a company himself for an

Josh:
estimated one billion dollars which i found interesting i was like why is

Josh:
elon the person acquiring this company

Josh:
and i mean surprise surprise it's an energy company named apr energy.

Josh:
And they are a Jacksonville fleet of trailer-mounted mobile gas and diesel turbines.

Josh:
Why on earth would he want to buy this?

Josh:
Well, it's because they have a gigawatt plus of capacity. And to buy a gigawatt

Josh:
of capacity for a billion dollars, it turns out that's a pretty good deal.

Josh:
And as we know, Grok has these Memphis data centers. They have Colossus 1,

Josh:
they have Colossus 2, they need to spin them up.

Josh:
And one of those big constraints has been power. And we've seen how much in-demand

Josh:
power has been in the ability to deploy quickly through companies like Bloom

Josh:
Energy. We've talked about Bloom Energy a lot on the show.

Josh:
Their stock has gone basically vertical recently because they are one of the

Josh:
few people who can modularly deploy energy to these data centers quickly.

Josh:
This company that Elon bought now is able to stand up these projects in about

Josh:
15 to 30 days, which is really exciting because these grid interconnection queues

Josh:
to tap into the mainline grid normally take a couple of years.

Josh:
So this really shrinks that time to get energy to the data center by like a

Josh:
order of magnitude and i think that's a really big deal so this is exciting

Josh:
it was kind of under the radar it didn't get published

Josh:
anywhere it was just kind of discovered through these filings that elon had

Josh:
made the purchase and i think it's a testament to how fast they are moving they

Josh:
need power elon's going out he said i'll get you a gigawatt myself he bought

Josh:
it they're going to deploy it in 15 to 30 days they're going to bring way more gpus online

Josh:
and that's a testament to the velocity in spacex ai so again really bullish

Josh:
news like keep an eye out on them they're they're making their way up to the frontier very quickly.

Ejaaz:
The problem Elon's solving with this is he has way too many GPUs to the tune

Ejaaz:
of like 1 to 1.5 million of all the latest NVIDIA GPUs, but he has no means

Ejaaz:
of bringing them online.

Ejaaz:
The actual wait time to get your GPUs hooked up to the energy grid is around five years right now.

Ejaaz:
And New York City, or rather New York State, this week became the first state

Ejaaz:
to pause or ban data center development and it's following a trend of a few other states.

Ejaaz:
If this continues to happen, workarounds like this, like acquiring companies

Ejaaz:
like this to get portable gas turbines and powering your GPUs may be the only way to work around it.

Ejaaz:
And the important part about this, why is this important at all,

Ejaaz:
is you need compute at the end of the day to build the best models.

Ejaaz:
We've seen Meta release MuseSpark 1.1, which isn't quite Frontier, but is pretty good.

Ejaaz:
And you've seen Grok 4.5 be able to compete with the big boys unexpectedly.

Ejaaz:
And the way they've been able to do this is because they've acquired so much

Ejaaz:
compute, but none of your GPUs make sense. They're worthless pieces of metal

Ejaaz:
if you can't power them up in the first place.

Ejaaz:
One thing I will say is we've spoken about Bloom Energy a lot on this show.

Ejaaz:
Leopold Aschenbrenner, who runs one of the biggest AI funds,

Ejaaz:
24-year-old kid, has made a big investment in Bloom Energy.

Ejaaz:
This is their direct competitor. And Elon just went out and looked at Bloom

Ejaaz:
Energy and thought, I don't want to have to deal with this. I'll just acquire

Ejaaz:
the company themselves and integrate them into what I'm doing here at SpaceX AI.

Ejaaz:
And I think it's an incredibly smart move. Now, moving on.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, there is a popular product that I believe both of us like to use quite

Ejaaz:
a lot called Whisperflow.

Ejaaz:
And the way that that works is instead of typing prompts, it takes a lot of

Ejaaz:
time, you can tap a button, hold it down on your laptop or on your computer.

Ejaaz:
And you can speak into a microphone or speak to your computer and all your words are recorded.

Ejaaz:
And it has been a major unlock for me. Voice to AI is just the way forwards

Ejaaz:
and I honestly can't see anywhere else where it doesn't result in that.

Ejaaz:
Now, this guy, Farza, released a new product from his company that is called

Ejaaz:
Screen Aware Dictation.

Ejaaz:
Now, one problem that I have when I hold down the button in Whisperflow and

Ejaaz:
I speak into it and it records exactly everything that I say is,

Ejaaz:
I'm also thinking in real time.

Ejaaz:
I'm like, oh, I want to say something in a tone that is kind but not too assertive.

Ejaaz:
And I want to talk about this topic. I don't know the definition of this topic,

Ejaaz:
but I need to do some research on that. And if I was using Whisperflow,

Ejaaz:
it would record everything I say verbatim and put it in that email.

Ejaaz:
With this new feature, it listens to you, it understands when you don't understand

Ejaaz:
something, it goes away, does the research, comes back and formulates the reply

Ejaaz:
or the response that you want.

Ejaaz:
And it's this massive jump up where you now have this feature which kind of

Ejaaz:
like simultaneously listens to what you want to say exactly,

Ejaaz:
also understands when you don't want to say something or what you don't know,

Ejaaz:
goes away, does the research, pulls all the context from your personal files

Ejaaz:
that it's connected to, and then comes up with the perfect response.

Ejaaz:
You can literally say, hey, I want to create a Google slide deck that is to

Ejaaz:
do with this document that I have on another screen or another tab.

Ejaaz:
It'll go away, research that, come back, and put that into a very well-presented

Ejaaz:
slide deck. So it's a really amazing product or feature. I've been using it a bit this morning.

Ejaaz:
I think he got overloaded since he announced this literally under 25 uh 24 hours

Ejaaz:
ago and it's got like 3 million views but um i don't know i just want to highlight

Ejaaz:
this feature because i think it's it's really cool

Josh:
Cool yeah i'm excited to give it a shot this feels like something that like

Josh:
open ai can release tomorrow and kind of

Josh:
knock off the the grid and call it a day i think this is a

Josh:
thematically interesting project though because again everyone is really trying

Josh:
to collect the context if you think about what thinking machines released they

Josh:
are just collecting context so that they can give you a custom tailored experience

Josh:
the open ai speaker that is probably going to be coming out its job is just

Josh:
to collect context about you and to then customize your experience same thing

Josh:
with this so much of the ai story now is kind of pivoting to context because

Josh:
the more an ai understands about you understands about your preferences the

Josh:
better it can serve you and this is another interesting example of it i saw

Josh:
there's a few other kind of rapid fire points that we can get through the next

Josh:
one being deep seek is preparing an ipo which is kind of crazy

Josh:
um that's going to be interesting to talk about,

Josh:
are there any interesting talking points with this ipo or is this kind of a

Josh:
rumor you guys do you know.

Ejaaz:
Um it's it's kind of an unofficial confirmed thing at this point a lot of the

Ejaaz:
main investors have kind of been like referring to this ipo and referring to

Ejaaz:
this new raise the reason why this is like compelling news is

Ejaaz:
they literally raised i think 15 billion dollars a week and a half ago

Ejaaz:
so as soon as that round closed they've raised yet another round that values them at like almost

Ejaaz:
one and a half X higher than they were before.

Ejaaz:
And now they're touting the IPO rumor, which you know, they're going to join

Ejaaz:
cheapu and a bunch of other Chinese AI companies in that public race.

Ejaaz:
Another interesting fact is the founder

Ejaaz:
Liang Wenfeng of DeepSeek owns around, I think it's 94% of the company,

Ejaaz:
which means that his net worth is roughly around $26 billion,

Ejaaz:
making him one of the most wealthiest AI CEOs out there.

Ejaaz:
This random guy from China who was a hedge quant fund trader literally about a year and a half ago.

Josh:
It's insane. Good for him, man. He's doing well. And then with that,

Josh:
I think that is pretty much all the news for this week. That's it.

Josh:
Yeah, we got it all covered.

Josh:
It's been an eventful week. There's a lot going on.

Josh:
It's amazing. I'm always surprised at how every week we can sit down here and

Josh:
somehow manage to find so many topics that are interesting to talk about

Josh:
the just frontier and the world of ai and technology is moving so rapidly so

Josh:
if you've made it this far through the episode thank you for watching if you've

Josh:
listened to the three prior episodes this week which i encourage you to do so

Josh:
we had some pretty interesting ones

Josh:
one was about the gpt 5.6 release the other one was about open ai getting sued

Josh:
by apple and the third being about um why the price war actually matters and

Josh:
we referenced that episode quite a bit about how the new frontier is kind of

Josh:
being battled on price instead of intelligence

Josh:
so those were all really great episodes if you enjoy this one

Josh:
please do not forget to share with your friends and if you did make it through

Josh:
all of that congratulations you're caught up you can go touch grass enjoy your weekend

Josh:
and yeah each has any final parting thoughts before we head out for the weekend.

Ejaaz:
I want to know what people are doing on the weekend. Are you using any of these models?

Ejaaz:
What are we tinkering with? You know, pun very much intended.

Ejaaz:
We, I think 90% of our content this week has been about new models.

Ejaaz:
There's OpenAI releasing literally three different models of three different modes.

Ejaaz:
We've got all these new open source models and they're super cheap to use.

Ejaaz:
So I'm wondering what you folks listening to this are tinkering with.

Ejaaz:
What are you doing? What are you building? What are you doing with these models? Are they even useful?

Ejaaz:
Are you still just kind of like ignoring all of this and using Fable 5 or GBT

Ejaaz:
5.6, let us know in the comments, DM us.

Ejaaz:
And the final thing I'll say is we are on the lookout for sponsors.

Ejaaz:
Limitless has spun out. We are officially on our own. We're keeping the lights on through our own.

Ejaaz:
And we would love to partner with someone that has a product or service that

Ejaaz:
they feel incredibly passionate about and want to share with our audience of

Ejaaz:
users who love to use these different things. So if that sounds like you,

Ejaaz:
or if there's a friend that sounds like that, please reach out to them, reach out to us.

Ejaaz:
Our email is in the description below. You can DM us on X or wherever we are.

Ejaaz:
And yeah, we'll see you on the next one. You're all caught up. Yeah.

Josh:
Awesome. Well, have a great weekend, everyone. See you next time.