Limitless: An AI Podcast

Josh:
There's a new Frontier model in town, and it comes from a not-so-suspecting company in SpaceX AI.

Josh:
They just released Grok 4.6. This is now possibly the best model that there

Josh:
is out there, depending on what you care about. As we look at this benchmark

Josh:
card, it shows that Grok 4.6 High is scoring higher than even Fable 5 on some tasks.

Josh:
And this is shocking because, I mean, just last week, if you would have asked

Josh:
us where Grok stood in the AI race, we would say, well, they're like a distant

Josh:
third competing probably with Meta and Gemini.

Josh:
The reality is that with this new model, they are now right at the front.

Josh:
And not only that, but the new model, Grok 4.7, is expected to come out in the

Josh:
next three to four weeks and be even better than this one.

Josh:
This comes on the back of Grok releasing a new product called GrokBot,

Josh:
which we'll get into, as well as a lot of other interesting news from this week.

Josh:
This is the roundup, the weekly roundup every Friday that we publish,

Josh:
where we cover all things about news and AI, things like covering earnings from

Josh:
NeoClouds all the way over to the new acquisition of your favorite or least

Josh:
favorite sports team. But we have to start here with Grok 4.6.

Josh:
They're back. They're right here at the frontier. This is an amazing model.

Ejaaz:
So back. Yeah, no. So for the longest time, SpaceX had kind of lost the frontier race.

Ejaaz:
Elon's engineering team had made a few wrong moves and they kind of fell behind

Ejaaz:
the likes of Anthropic OpenAI and Google, which is crazy to say because Google's

Ejaaz:
fallen behind a lot since then.

Ejaaz:
They're officially back. Grok 4.6 comes, I think, three weeks after Grok 4.5

Ejaaz:
got released, and it is a bigger and better model.

Ejaaz:
Now, specifically, if we look at a few different benchmark comparisons,

Ejaaz:
there's this thing called the AA Intelligence Index. It's a really good way

Ejaaz:
of testing just the general level of intelligence across different models.

Ejaaz:
And on your screen here, you'll see it compared directly to GPT 5.6 Sol Max.

Ejaaz:
So that's like the highest, hardest version from OpenAI, as well as Fable 5 Max.

Ejaaz:
And you'll see it is the equivalent to GBD 5.6 Sol and just a point of Fable

Ejaaz:
5. So you could argue that its general intelligence level is right up there.

Ejaaz:
But the best part is it comes at a fraction of the cost. So it's 5x cheaper

Ejaaz:
output than Sol, 8.5x cheaper output than Fable.

Ejaaz:
Overall, you're kind of ranging between 3 to 5x cheaper than these two models,

Ejaaz:
which is a big thing if you're like a company that's using these frontier models

Ejaaz:
and want to kind of figure out

Ejaaz:
how to cut your cost down from tens to hundreds of millions of dollars.

Ejaaz:
Now, the main way that they're able to achieve this frontier intelligence,

Ejaaz:
well, there's a few ways, but the main one is they spin up a bunch of agents.

Ejaaz:
So Grok 4.6 uses multiple agents to kind of like solve your query.

Ejaaz:
Now, this isn't something that's relatively new.

Ejaaz:
This is something that Meta is doing in their smaller models.

Ejaaz:
It's something that a lot of Chinese open source models are also doing. So that's one part.

Ejaaz:
Two, and this is like, I have to emphasize, this is SpaceX's like biggest moat.

Ejaaz:
They have a lot of data, a lot of useful data that makes these models insanely

Ejaaz:
smart. They can just bung it into it when they're training it.

Ejaaz:
And also a hell of a lot of compute, which Elon has been very strategically

Ejaaz:
amassing over the last year. He has like the most compute out of anyone in the game.

Ejaaz:
And we're starting to see this, like you mentioned, like 4.7 is coming out in

Ejaaz:
a few weeks time, and it's going to be even bigger and better than this.

Ejaaz:
I think it's going to be like a three to five trillion parameter model.

Ejaaz:
So you can only imagine that, like, you know, with the cost benefits and with

Ejaaz:
the intelligence that's increasing, like SpaceX is in a new world right now. It's very impressive.

Josh:
Yeah, this is where things are going to start to get really interesting because it was.

Josh:
Mostly a matter of if not when and now it feels like it's a matter of when when

Josh:
they actually get to their frontier and eclipse it

Josh:
for a few reasons the first of which is that i mean as we mention all the time

Josh:
the spacex team is the best team in the world at building physical things at

Josh:
moving atoms around at compiling data centers quickly

Josh:
it is nothing compared to building a rocket ship to just put a couple servers

Josh:
on a rack on the ground and plug them into electricity so they have been doing

Josh:
this quickly and efficiently in the episode yesterday we talked about micro

Josh:
hard which is the small version of macro hard

Josh:
yet it is the same exact footprint in terms of gpus in a cluster so basically

Josh:
they've able to they've been able to figure out how to get 200 000 coherent

Josh:
gpus into a package the size that's

Josh:
about one third of macro hard so it's this amazing iterative process that they

Josh:
have on hardware and then they have this amazing iterative process on software

Josh:
where they're planning to publish these models once a month

Josh:
that are incrementally stronger and stronger you said now you just i think we're

Josh:
at three to five i'm pretty sure there's plans for like eight to 10 trillion parameters

Josh:
in terms of parameter count.

Ejaaz:
They actually have that training run going right now for a 10 trillion parameter model.

Josh:
It's in the oven right now. So we are going to get that after it's done with

Josh:
the post-training alignment phase.

Josh:
But the idea is that it's all coming. It's all happening.

Josh:
The hard part is mostly done. They've gotten from zero to one.

Josh:
They've reached it back to the frontier.

Josh:
Now it's just a matter of seeing how far they could push it, how quickly.

Josh:
I'm going to guess like pretty quick. I don't know. when i think about other

Josh:
advantages like their data set like you mentioned having access to all the proprietary

Josh:
space rocket science data that seems valuable in terms of science and intelligence

Josh:
basically they have this open corpus of data that no model has ever been trained

Josh:
on that's proprietary and for

Josh:
those that aren't familiar like starship the giant rocket that's going to mars

Josh:
that was built 100 by humans there was no ai in the process so all of the math

Josh:
all of the science all of the hardware schematics

Josh:
that's incredibly valuable and that's what grok 4.6 is being trained So this

Josh:
model is an amazing model and I'm very excited to see where Grot goes from here.

Ejaaz:
Not to mention that Elon Musk has specified that by the end of the year,

Ejaaz:
Grok 5 will be released. I believe that will be the 10 trillion parameter model.

Ejaaz:
So we're talking about mythos grade level model.

Ejaaz:
But it'll be the smartest engineering AI model in the world.

Ejaaz:
And the reason why he says that is it'll be trained entirely on SpaceX's engineering data.

Ejaaz:
And there is no better physical engineering team in the world that isn't at

Ejaaz:
SpaceX. So not only is he building better generalized models,

Ejaaz:
he is building hyper-specific ones that are going to hopefully push the frontiers

Ejaaz:
of science, material sciences forward.

Ejaaz:
Now, for those haters out there that have, you know, validly pointed out that

Ejaaz:
Elon makes a lot of big promises but doesn't really fill his shoes,

Ejaaz:
this is one instance where he definitely is doing this.

Ejaaz:
And I don't think it was, it was until a few days ago, priced into the market.

Ejaaz:
But like right now, when you look at the stock, it is up 26% in the last five days.

Ejaaz:
I remember when we made our episode last week when the stock was down, I don't know, like 35%.

Ejaaz:
And we literally said that like, you know, like there's a lot of unlocks coming out.

Ejaaz:
We understand that there's a lot of supply constraints and issues here.

Ejaaz:
But if you are somewhat a mid to long-term holder, SpaceX so obviously has a

Ejaaz:
track record for execution, being able to pull feats like this off and people

Ejaaz:
just weren't pricing into the air completely.

Ejaaz:
Remember, when you buy SpaceX stock, You are just buying like a rocket company, right?

Ejaaz:
You're buying a satellite connectivity company.

Ejaaz:
You are buying the cheapest way to get into space and launch your own compute

Ejaaz:
if you wanted to harvest that. You're buying a rocket company as well.

Ejaaz:
And you're also buying an AI company. Oh, also the social media company of the

Ejaaz:
world that's going to distribute a bunch of these things. Include it.

Ejaaz:
This new product that has just come out, which we have been playing around with

Ejaaz:
called GrokBot. It's my understanding that this is basically their version of

Ejaaz:
OpenClaw, except it actually works. Do I have that right, Josh?

Josh:
It's a remarkable product. I am obsessed with GrokBot. It feels like the SpaceX

Josh:
AI team is jumping to endgame of what a agentic product could actually look like.

Josh:
Like you mentioned, it's very similar in sense to OpenClaw, but it feels like

Josh:
it's a much more improved and refined version of OpenClaw in the sense that it's fully agentic.

Josh:
And maybe I could explain the way it works. So basically you join this application

Josh:
and it just gives you a text box similar in style to iMessage.

Josh:
You could picture like where you send your text messages, except you could spin up an agent.

Josh:
You can give them a task. You can give them a personality. You give them a name

Josh:
and then they will be that person for you. So for example, if you like working

Josh:
out, you go to the gym, you create a little chat bot and you say,

Josh:
Hey, you're my gym workout companion buddy. You are a world-class expert at fitness.

Josh:
You are going to give me an entire workout program based on these 10 things

Josh:
that I know about my body and I'd like to work with you every single day to

Josh:
Actually get more fit and more healthy and remind me every day to go and work

Josh:
out. And if I don't check in with you, then remind me again and again until

Josh:
I actually get my ass to the gym and work out.

Josh:
And this is a very basic version of what it's capable of. But I think it's really

Josh:
interesting in a way that OpenClaw wasn't because OpenClaw required a bit of

Josh:
technical expertise. You need to host your own server.

Josh:
You need to download the software on the server. You need to run maintenance.

Josh:
You need to manage the memory system. You need to manage all the nuance and complexities.

Josh:
With this program all you have to do is just log in and you just start talking

Josh:
to it it hosts it on their servers the application is beautiful they've done

Josh:
this really cool thing that i love which is the design of the actual

Josh:
agents they have this very cute animation it kind of disarms the feeling that

Josh:
you're working with this like

Josh:
kind of scary spooky ai and just turns it into a really fun experience

Josh:
and it's available on mobile it's available on desktop and i like cannot encourage

Josh:
trying it out enough and you don't even realize that you're talking to a system

Josh:
similar to open claw because it's so easy to set up it's all handed on the background

Josh:
i think amazing product from grok

Ejaaz:
If you're listening to this and you're wondering okay is this a new ai model

Ejaaz:
should i be using this i tried that open call thing out and it was terrible

Ejaaz:
it stole all my money from my bank account

Ejaaz:
Let me try and explain like who this product might be pitched at,

Ejaaz:
right? So it is not the ideal product to use if you are a hardcore software

Ejaaz:
engineer, if you want to code every day.

Ejaaz:
This is pitched at sort of knowledge workers who spend a lot of time doing software

Ejaaz:
or desktop-based tasks, but want to automate some of the more.

Ejaaz:
Menial things like email admin or calendar scheduling or customer support and stuff like that.

Ejaaz:
These types of things take up a lot of time. And if you kind of like sum up

Ejaaz:
the economic value of all of it across like every single sector, it is quite a large sum.

Ejaaz:
And I think to understand why GrokBots isn't just a toy is to understand what

Ejaaz:
Elon Musk said, I think about six months ago, which is,

Ejaaz:
it is very much XAI and now SpaceX AI's mission

Ejaaz:
to replace a lot of human software-based tasks, not so that it replaces people's

Ejaaz:
jobs, but to give them the freedom to not waste their time on stuff that doesn't need to be wasted.

Ejaaz:
They can kind of like automate away all the boring manual labor that you get tired of doing at work.

Ejaaz:
And it frees you up to do more creative, impactful things in your actual job.

Ejaaz:
He references it as a human emulator. So it's basically, you can interact with

Ejaaz:
these agents and you don't even know that it's another human.

Ejaaz:
That's like the real test, the benchmark on the other end. And this is the first

Ejaaz:
step towards that. Now, is this that?

Ejaaz:
No. But is this a really refined and easy to use version like you mentioned, Josh?

Ejaaz:
Yes. You sign up. They spin up a virtual machine in the cloud and your agents

Ejaaz:
just kind of like run riot and they can like simultaneously take over your computer,

Ejaaz:
but it's done in a very safe mannered way so that they can't do anything crazy.

Ejaaz:
And the thing that pops to the top of my head when I read through and watch

Ejaaz:
all the demos of this problem and read the feedback is...

Ejaaz:
This is a direct attack against not OpenAI or Anthropik, but Apple,

Ejaaz:
who is releasing Siri AI in a few months' time now and is meant to function

Ejaaz:
and perform completely on your phone.

Ejaaz:
It's meant to interact with all your apps and all that kinds of stuff.

Ejaaz:
Now, granted, GrokBot can't do that right now, but it is accessible and available on your phone.

Ejaaz:
You can text it whenever you want. And I can only imagine that eventually this

Ejaaz:
will get access to some types of phones, maybe Android first because the Apple ecosystem is so closed.

Ejaaz:
But I see this as a direct competitor to that. And I'm just so happy to see

Ejaaz:
Elon make a functional product that isn't just a model because that's why he's best at. Yeah.

Josh:
And at the very least, you at least you get the app on your phone and the new

Josh:
Siri is actually launching in about a month from today. So it's coming very soon.

Josh:
But this feels like the magic that I felt with Open Claw, except a more refined

Josh:
and far more productive version.

Josh:
Currently, it's baked in with GPT 4.6, which we just said is a remarkable model

Josh:
for incredibly low price.

Josh:
As these models continue to improve having those baked into this agentic experience

Josh:
feels pretty incredible

Josh:
it's like you open up your phone out of your pocket and you have this series of brilliant

Josh:
supercomputer helpers that can do anything in the world for you they can work

Josh:
together they can gain access to your context it feels like a peek into the

Josh:
future this feels like open claw 2.0 so it's a really exciting product i think

Josh:
we're going to follow this one

Josh:
closely and see what the other company's reactions to a product like this

Josh:
are going to be but that is the grok update congratulations on your new Frontier slot.

Josh:
Looking forward to the next one. For the next topic, we have another,

Josh:
I mean, kind of Frontier model, except this one on the open source side.

Josh:
DeepSeek is back with another release as well. DeepSeek v4.0.

Josh:
Pro. And the price floor has moved once again. This is a pretty big deal.

Ejaaz:
Yeah. So DeepSeek, if we kind of harken back to, what is it,

Ejaaz:
like a year and a half now, which is not that long ago at all,

Ejaaz:
caused a massive disruption in the AI field because back then, compute was king.

Ejaaz:
Sam Altman was on top. And if you could buy as much compute as you can,

Ejaaz:
you could train the smartest models.

Ejaaz:
DeepSeek came along, which is, I believe, birthed out of a hedge fund, Liang Wangfeng.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, he's a hedge fund manager in China and basically said,

Ejaaz:
hey, yeah, I ran a bunch of quants and asked them to make a model that would

Ejaaz:
help it with financial trading and ended up creating a groundbreaking model

Ejaaz:
that didn't require as much compute. And it kind of like tore the market apart.

Ejaaz:
Well, since then, they've released, I think, one more model.

Ejaaz:
And now they're back with like their big boy model. Now, this isn't an official

Ejaaz:
release. This has been rumored to be released soon, but we had an official leak

Ejaaz:
about the benchmarks for this model, DeepSeek V4 Pro.

Ejaaz:
Now, yes, it is re-rated the cost sheet as always. It is always the cheapest

Ejaaz:
cost per unit intelligence for an AI lab out there.

Ejaaz:
But what struck me was some of these benchmarks that were leaked.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you look at Terminal Bench 2.1, which is a popular coding paradigm or

Ejaaz:
benchmark, it comes in at 87.9, right?

Ejaaz:
Now, when you compare that directly to, say, Fable 5, it is,

Ejaaz:
what is that, 0.1 of Fable 5's level of coding capability, measured at this benchmark.

Ejaaz:
If you look at Opus 4.8, Kimi K3, and GLM Fiber 2 absolutely crushes it.

Ejaaz:
But the other worrying part is this one over here.

Ejaaz:
It's the CyberGym benchmark.

Ejaaz:
It is not only rivaled, but it's slightly better than Fable 5 at cyber capabilities.

Ejaaz:
Now, the reason why this worries me is Dario had a really good post.

Ejaaz:
I think about a month ago, where he said, in about six months time,

Ejaaz:
we are going to have an open source version of Mythos' level of cyber capability.

Ejaaz:
And that's going to be an issue because it's going to have no safeguards around it. So.

Ejaaz:
The reason why Mythos hasn't been able to wreak havoc on the world is because

Ejaaz:
they have safeguards around it.

Ejaaz:
DeepSeek, if they release this in an open source fashion, is going to have,

Ejaaz:
you know, a bunch of amazing effects where you can run it at home,

Ejaaz:
it's cheaper, private, blah, blah, blah.

Ejaaz:
But also, if it was put in the hands of a malicious actor, it could end up causing

Ejaaz:
havoc. So I just wanted to point that out. Like, it isn't an official release

Ejaaz:
just yet, but it's something that I'm keeping my eye on.

Josh:
It's coming. Well, we did have an official release, and it came in the form

Josh:
of an earnings release. In fact, we had two of them.

Josh:
Uh one from core weave and the other from nebius for those not familiar these

Josh:
are neocloud providers neocloud providers they're basically

Josh:
they they work with the gpu providers to collect gpus they build their own infrastructure

Josh:
and they rent out that infrastructure to people who want to train their ai models

Josh:
or use them for inference or whatever it may be so you could think of it as

Josh:
like ai training or ai inference as a service they offer to people

Josh:
they had a pretty unbelievable quarter both of these companies when we look

Josh:
at nebius how much was it up on the day i'm not seeing it on the chart but i

Josh:
know it was up like a huge amount i think it was up

Ejaaz:
25 on the day.

Josh:
Yeah and core weave i believe was up 31 at least this week yes both of these

Josh:
companies showed blowout numbers mostly because um

Josh:
as we mentioned in the previous episode the price per rental hour of gpus is

Josh:
just going through the roof everyone when they initially evaluated these neocloud

Josh:
providers they were baking in depreciation of these gpus over time

Josh:
because when you have a gpu you assume it's a depreciating asset,

Josh:
you mark it down year over year until it reaches a settling point.

Josh:
What's happening is the inverse. The number's going up. So therefore,

Josh:
the amount of revenue that they're making is going up. And from the Corby Verning's

Josh:
call, we have a quote here. It says, we recently signed an A100 contract.

Josh:
Again, those are the 2020 GPUs.

Josh:
That extends into 2029 GPUs.

Josh:
At an attractive price. So people are signing contracts for three years out on GPUs that are 25%

Ejaaz:
Higher than they rented out two years ago, by the way.

Josh:
That's incredible. So on the surface, I mean, that looks, that looks great.

Josh:
We're like, okay, this is a good company. But then also I do have to,

Josh:
I do have to say, I was looking into the earnings, particularly of CoreWeave,

Josh:
which I'm more familiar with.

Josh:
And I realized that they actually have a bit of an issue on their hands.

Josh:
They're spending a lot of money that they don't have. So one of the things that

Josh:
we look at when we look at the hyperscalers in particular, like Google and Amazon,

Josh:
is they're spending a lot of money out of their free cash flow.

Josh:
They're not going into debt.

Josh:
What's happening with Corbiv at least is they have $6.5 billion of capex,

Josh:
but they have a negative free cash flow of just under $6 billion,

Josh:
which means they're losing money.

Josh:
They have debt around $35 billion of it. And this is a company,

Josh:
when I see that, I'm like, oh, wait, that's the thing we've been looking out for.

Josh:
The hyperscalers don't have that because they're making enough revenue in order

Josh:
to offset that. But this company,

Josh:
I don't know. I just noticed that. And I was like, huh, okay.

Josh:
A little flag went off. I'm like, okay, great earnings.

Josh:
Number one up. But we're spending a little bit more than we can afford right now.

Ejaaz:
But they also have a revenue backlog of $104 billion.

Ejaaz:
And they just signed $25 billion in customer commitments, which I think about

Ejaaz:
50 to 60% of that is paid up front, just for Q3 alone.

Ejaaz:
So you're definitely right to call out the debt backlog. I saw Martin Shkreli,

Ejaaz:
our financial analyst provocateur make the point around that they're in a lot of debt.

Ejaaz:
But I think this is just the name of the game over the next couple of years

Ejaaz:
where a lot of hyperscalers, especially these neoclouds who have to compete

Ejaaz:
with the big boys like Microsoft and Google and AWS.

Ejaaz:
Need to double down on AI CapEx if they want any shot of winning.

Ejaaz:
And if you look over at the Nebius kind of breakdown, by the way,

Ejaaz:
we should get into the revenue numbers just very briefly, like their revenue

Ejaaz:
is up 454% year upon year.

Ejaaz:
That is an insane business. And that is not too indifferent quarter to quarter

Ejaaz:
as well. I think they're compounding by like 50%, which is just absolutely insane.

Ejaaz:
But the point around Nebius is this is a more, shall I say, grown up version of CoreWeave.

Ejaaz:
And they're sitting on about $8 billion in cash. So I think of like CoreWeave

Ejaaz:
being a younger gun that's like really eager and might end up flying too close

Ejaaz:
to the sun, but they do have the backing of NVIDIA.

Ejaaz:
They do have contracts with Anthropic, I believe, which essentially prop up

Ejaaz:
that revenue backlog that I mentioned earlier on.

Ejaaz:
And I just want to explain something that separates what these neoclouds are

Ejaaz:
versus like some of these hyperscalers. When you look at Google,

Ejaaz:
when you look at AWS, when you look at Microsoft, they've been in the cloud game for a while.

Ejaaz:
So when this AI stuff came along, they basically looked at it and said.

Ejaaz:
Oh, cool. I'm squeezing 30 to 40% margins on normal cloud.

Ejaaz:
I should be able to do the same with AI, right?

Ejaaz:
So they go to Jensen and they buy all these GPUs and they realize,

Ejaaz:
oh, Jensen's taking 70% margin, so I have to take less...

Ejaaz:
Percentage on this. So they become a little more difficult to work with.

Ejaaz:
When you're a company that wants to least compute for some of these hyperscalers,

Ejaaz:
they don't do anything and everything for you.

Ejaaz:
Compare that to Nebius and CoreWeave, they will go out to build a specific cluster

Ejaaz:
that works for your specific workload.

Ejaaz:
And that's the difference between these two companies or these two types of

Ejaaz:
companies and why I think Nebius and CoreWeave are actually going to do pretty well in the future.

Josh:
Yeah, I hope so. We'll see. We also had news from another company similar in

Josh:
this space with Intel, who was saying, they're like, hey, actually,

Josh:
we kind of need some more money. Can we get $15 billion?

Josh:
And they asked for $15 billion and the market kind of hated it.

Josh:
The stock fell 5% after announcing that they are doing a $15 billion common

Josh:
stock issuance to help fund the AI build out and growth opportunities.

Josh:
Market was like, ooh, we don't like that. Again, to the CapEx thing.

Josh:
Everyone's allergic to CapEx for some reason. They think that these companies

Josh:
are not good at allocating money.

Josh:
Clearly, they're wrong because, I mean, in the last day, Intel has now bounced

Josh:
back. They're doing fairly well.

Josh:
But what is the story behind this reaction and the kind of knee-jerk reaction

Josh:
in which initially they were a little upset? But then it seems like today the

Josh:
market's kind of coming to its senses and figuring, like, wait a second, maybe we do like CapEx.

Ejaaz:
Well, people obviously do like it, but specific people, which are the investors

Ejaaz:
in Intel. So they originally asked for $15 billion, but they ended up getting

Ejaaz:
demand for $100 billion.

Ejaaz:
And they thought, okay, well, we won't take $100 billion worth of equity sell,

Ejaaz:
but we'll take an extra $5 billion. So they ended up raising $20 billion in

Ejaaz:
under 24 hours, might I add.

Ejaaz:
Now, you might be wondering, why on earth do they need more money?

Ejaaz:
Why are they selling equity? Why are they diluting shareholders?

Ejaaz:
Well, number one, the dilution isn't actually that much, who cares?

Ejaaz:
But if you listen to their last earnings call, Li Bhutan, who is the CEO,

Ejaaz:
who has been changing things around a lot for Intel, as well as the CFO said

Ejaaz:
something very specific, and I'll quote it.

Ejaaz:
He goes, things are going really well, and we have almost $20 to $30 billion.

Ejaaz:
Cash balance that we can spend on anything and everything.

Ejaaz:
However, if things are going really well, we may raise external capital.

Ejaaz:
And what he was referring to there is if they have a lot of signed contracts

Ejaaz:
and upcoming customers, big customers that want to use their foundry.

Ejaaz:
There's something called Intel Foundry where Intel is basically building a chip

Ejaaz:
fab that is going to go up against NVIDIA and the likes of AMD as well.

Ejaaz:
Then they will raise external capital. This is the clearest signal that they have those customers.

Ejaaz:
So I have a feeling over the next couple of months, we're going to see an announcement

Ejaaz:
from Intel saying that they've signed a major client like, I don't know,

Ejaaz:
an Apple or an Anthropic or OpenAI, basically saying, yeah, we're going to be

Ejaaz:
designing custom chips for them, which I think is a big deal.

Ejaaz:
So I'm happy to see Intel winning and I'm a pretty big fan.

Josh:
Yeah, well, part of the reason why they're needing this build out is because,

Josh:
I mean, again, we talk about the increased amount of inference that has been happening.

Josh:
There's just so many inference tokens required because of agents and if you're

Josh:
building with agents we have a message for you from our friends and sponsors

Josh:
over at ledger because oftentimes if you're building with agents you're probably

Josh:
worried about security we've seen all these breakouts that have happened recently

Josh:
in the space it's kind of scary ledger has a solution to this it comes in the

Josh:
form of three parts where the agents propose the humans approve and then the ledger signers enforce

Josh:
this is the three-step process to ensure that you are safe when you're working

Josh:
with agents ledger has this thing called an agent stack it's totally open source

Josh:
it comes equipped with tools to help you manage the way that you work with your agents.

Josh:
It works with cloud code, codex, cursor, anywhere you really interface with

Josh:
AI, and it's totally open source.

Josh:
So you can check it out in the link in the description below.

Josh:
Thank you so much to Ledger for sponsoring this episode. Now we have to move

Josh:
over to watermarking, which is apparently a thing that's been happening now.

Josh:
What's the watermarking story here?

Ejaaz:
I'm still trying to figure it out myself, but basically our friends across the

Ejaaz:
pond in the EU, they like regulating stuff, especially tech and especially AI.

Ejaaz:
And their latest law has basically required the top AI labs to watermark the

Ejaaz:
text output or the response that your AI chatbot gives you when you write to it.

Ejaaz:
So let's say you ask Anthropik or Claude specifically, hey, like,

Ejaaz:
can you teach me how to do A, B, and C? Or let's say you ask it to do a bit

Ejaaz:
of work at your job, right? Like help you generate a structure for a document.

Ejaaz:
That text that it generates will have an embedded watermark that can be traced

Ejaaz:
back to being Claude. So let's say you copy that text and you paste it into your work document.

Ejaaz:
And eventually your manager is like, oh, I'm going to run this through a detection

Ejaaz:
system just to see if this was written by Claude.

Ejaaz:
By the way, even if you edit it, it'll still work. So he runs it through Claude

Ejaaz:
or runs it through Anthropics New Thing.

Ejaaz:
And apparently it'll become flagged as written by Claude or AI specifically.

Ejaaz:
And the EU's justification behind this is essentially, we want to make sure

Ejaaz:
that we protect users from AI generated content and be able to distinguish between

Ejaaz:
human generated stuff and AI generated stuff.

Ejaaz:
I have a bunch of questions around this being number one, is this official?

Ejaaz:
Number two, why is an EU act being applied to the entire world?

Ejaaz:
By the way, this will be applied to not just EU countries, but models anywhere

Ejaaz:
and everywhere in the world. I don't really know what to think of this.

Josh:
Yeah, the EU has this really funny thing where like sometimes they ruin the

Josh:
world sometimes they help the world and there's a funny example that i love

Josh:
to reference here which is like the iphone

Josh:
um the iphone had this proprietary cable which was lightning and it was kind

Josh:
of annoying because it was the only device that used a lightning adapter it

Josh:
was proprietary it only worked for apple

Josh:
The EU was being being annoying as they are. They said, no, no,

Josh:
no, no, no. You must use a generic port. You must use a port that everybody

Josh:
else is using. That's not proprietary.

Josh:
So Apple had to accelerate the switch over to USB-C. And it turns out that worked

Josh:
out well for everyone. We enjoyed that.

Josh:
This seems like a different case. I'm not really sure. I think we could kind

Josh:
of stay tuned for more information on how this is going to roll out and what

Josh:
this will actually look like.

Josh:
But an interesting development nonetheless. There's another interesting development

Josh:
that I actually I added to this agenda intentionally because I needed to talk about it today.

Josh:
Not because i care about the la lakers but we care i care about the people who

Josh:
bought the la lakers so for those who aren't familiar

Josh:
the la lakers was sold last year for about 10 billion dollars i believe it was

Josh:
flipped in the matter of 12 months to a new owner who just purchased the stake

Josh:
for 12.5 billion dollars the most expensive sale in american history

Josh:
there are two people behind this purchase the first one

Josh:
His name is Bob Iger. You might know him as the dude who acquired Marvel,

Josh:
Lucasfilms, 21st Century Fox.

Josh:
That's like Star Wars, Iron Man, Avengers. This is the movie guy.

Josh:
This is the CEO of Disney.

Josh:
He partnered up with this other guy named Joshua Kushner, who you may also have heard of as the

Josh:
Perhaps the single largest, if not one of the largest investors in OpenAI and

Josh:
one of the most active investors in the company to which Sam Altman frequently

Josh:
references him as the flagship person who you want to invest on a cap table.

Josh:
I find this to be really interesting because this very much feels like the barbell

Josh:
strategy in which you have a fund, Thrive Capital being the name of it,

Josh:
which is fully invested in the frontier.

Josh:
They're investing in AI, they're investing in all this robotics infrastructure,

Josh:
all these things that are coming down the pipeline.

Josh:
And then they're also investing in what you could imagine is a post-EGI world.

Josh:
What things actually matter, what things go up in value when AI can automate

Josh:
everything. Well, I mean, people aren't going to stop watching basketball, right?

Josh:
And that's uniquely human. We're not going to get humanoids involved in that.

Josh:
So they're looking to purchase assets that are durable post-AGI and I just found

Josh:
this to be a really interesting story of if anything a thought experiment when

Josh:
you think about the world's after we have artificial super intelligence we have

Josh:
humanoid robots walking around everywhere we have

Josh:
robotics at scale what are the things that still matter to us as humans that

Josh:
we're going to continue to spend capital on it's probably something like these

Josh:
human experiences and the LA Lakers are a pretty sweet brand so they dropped

Josh:
a bag on securing this and I just thought it was really interesting and worth mentioning.

Josh:
And just like an interesting thought experiment on like, hey,

Josh:
where's the world going to go once we figure all these hard problems out?

Ejaaz:
Yeah. Largest transaction for a sporting franchise ever. That is a large amount of money.

Ejaaz:
I'm big fans of Thrive and I like the way that Josh thinks of a lot of his investments.

Ejaaz:
But yeah, to your point, I think this is a very intentional bet on humanity,

Ejaaz:
which is very refreshing to see from one of the largest AI investors in the world.

Ejaaz:
And I think that, you know, as time progresses, human created or human authenticated

Ejaaz:
IP is going to become incredibly valuable. And sporting is a.

Ejaaz:
Just happens to be one of those franchises where, you know, that condenses pretty

Ejaaz:
strongly. And I think, you know, it's just also pretty dope to just buy your

Ejaaz:
favorite team. I think that's a freaking epic, epic baller trade for them.

Ejaaz:
And yeah, so to round off the docket, speaking of OpenAI, they're churning through,

Ejaaz:
these employees, man. But just to round this off, Brad Lightcap,

Ejaaz:
who joined, I believe, as their head of growth and then ended up becoming the COO, has left,

Ejaaz:
Brad Lightcap was pretty definitive to a lot of OpenAI's growth stage,

Ejaaz:
specifically from like GPT-3 onwards.

Ejaaz:
He's been toiling away, but now he's left to go do bigger and better things.

Ejaaz:
We don't actually know what he's doing. But the point is, OpenAI has seen quite

Ejaaz:
a lot of churn over the last couple of months.

Ejaaz:
It happens to come around a time where they're rumored to basically be IPO-ing.

Ejaaz:
When I look over Anthropic, I see the opposite.

Ejaaz:
They're like a magnet attracting a bunch of people. And I do wonder what the

Ejaaz:
differences between them are actually.

Ejaaz:
But that being said, it doesn't seem to be having any change structurally.

Ejaaz:
The research team is still pounding along and creating better models.

Ejaaz:
But it's just interesting to see. And you know, Brad, if you're watching this,

Ejaaz:
dude, like, thanks for everything, dude, you've absolutely killed it.

Josh:
So yeah, pretty legendary run. Yeah. Open AI seems to have this remarkable rate

Josh:
of turn where a lot of top leadership leaves as a lot of very impressive people come in.

Josh:
And I think it's interesting and just noteworthy. I'm not sure what that implies,

Josh:
but a lot of people want to work there. A lot of people are going there.

Josh:
I guess it's testament to how intense it is to work there, but noteworthy nonetheless.

Josh:
Thank you for your services. My dear Brad, you have made a meaningful impact

Josh:
on the world through OpenAI and I'm sure whatever is coming next.

Josh:
Sam Altman said that he looks forward to working together. So whatever this

Josh:
new thing is, I suspect they're going to be doing it as some form of a partner. We'll see TBD.

Josh:
But that is the roundup. This is a fairly long one we had a lot to cover this

Josh:
week a lot of cool and exciting news and it's funny it felt like this was a down week

Josh:
this week felt kind of like a lull there wasn't that much going on and yet still

Josh:
we are here talking about so many things that are happening every single day

Josh:
i think the highlights this week really i mean grok coming out with that new

Josh:
model was pretty big meta releasing the open source models were pretty big

Josh:
we had the full diagnosis on the exploit that happened

Josh:
with open ai and breaking through hugging face you could check out all those

Josh:
videos we filmed entire episodes about that if you haven't made it through.

Josh:
But if you have, and you've reached this point of the video,

Josh:
made it through another week, congratulations. Thanks for sticking with us.

Josh:
It was a really good one. Really exciting. You are now fully up to date.

Josh:
You can go and touch some grass. Enjoy your weekend.

Josh:
Maybe look at the sun, but not for too long. The eclipse happened yesterday

Josh:
at the time of recording. It looked amazing. I went to the last two full eclipses

Josh:
and I missed this one. And I have so much FOMO. So if anyone was there,

Josh:
I'd love to hear about your experience.

Ejaaz:
What do you mean you went to the last two eclipses? Like you traveled to a country

Ejaaz:
where you could see them?

Josh:
Yeah, the United States of America, dog. It was great.

Josh:
Tennessee. And then I forget where the second one was a couple of years ago.

Josh:
But they're amazing. They're unbelievable experiences. And another one just

Josh:
happened. It covered a lot of Spain.

Ejaaz:
Wait, Josh, I thought they were every 90 years. this wasn't the last one like 1999.

Josh:
No dude i saw the last one like a couple of years ago right right like it was

Josh:
like a four-hour drive away from you wait

Ejaaz:
Wait let's let's track this up so that sounds epic i mean it.

Josh:
Must be it's just like unbelievable experience similar i guess you could kind

Josh:
of make it a comparison to the world cup in a way where it's like this unifying experience that feels

Josh:
credibly neutral like sure the world cup everyone has like their favorites but

Josh:
it's this unifying thing where you experience this together and you're like

Josh:
holy shit like we're actually

Josh:
we're pretty small beings in this universe we don't mean a lot there's like

Josh:
really powerful things happening and it's it's something that's totally out

Josh:
of our control that is like remarkably beautiful and unique and rare

Josh:
and i could see why if people like who didn't know what this was

Josh:
had this happened to them you'd probably be pretty freaked out you'd probably

Josh:
believe in aliens or whatever crazy stuff because like it that's what it feels

Josh:
like um so next one next we'll find where the next one is we'll put on our calendars

Josh:
we'll book a flight and we'll go because it's amazing but that's why I just

Josh:
had a little bit of fun with that.

Ejaaz:
I saw some insane photography and videography about people seeing this for the first time.

Ejaaz:
And also there was this awesome video of a guy skateboarding off a half ramp

Ejaaz:
into the eclipse sun as it was setting. It was just the most insane thing ever. Everything was dark.

Ejaaz:
And I couldn't help but think,

Ejaaz:
is this AI. And so I'll leave you on this note. That was real.

Josh:
Wait, also one cool thing about, like, because it mostly happened in Spain,

Josh:
in Mallorca, the sun was going down right at the time of the eclipse happening.

Josh:
And when the sun is closest to the horizon, it's largest. So it looked like

Josh:
this huge eclipsing sun. And I think that's the video you're referencing of

Josh:
this, like with the telephoto lens, you can get some pretty unbelievable shots.

Ejaaz:
It looked like the end of the world, honestly. It was pretty insane.

Josh:
So cool.

Ejaaz:
But yeah, that is it. That is the roundup. Thank you so much for listening.

Ejaaz:
If you are listening to us, if you're watching this and you aren't subscribed

Ejaaz:
or you don't have notifications on, please do. It helps us out massively.

Ejaaz:
Leave us a comment, DM us.

Ejaaz:
A bunch of you have been saying hi in IRL as well. So we love that.

Ejaaz:
Keep approaching us. Keep saying hello. We'd love to hear from you.

Ejaaz:
And yeah, that is it. We will see you next week. Back again on the list.