Limitless: An AI Podcast

Josh:
Meta has pivoted again for the third time and now back to an open source company.

Josh:
The story of Meta has been pretty insane.

Josh:
Two years ago they were totally open source, hellbent on wreaking havoc on the

Josh:
entire marketplace of closed source models.

Josh:
They were doing this through their model called Llama and for those who weren't

Josh:
familiar, Llama was just kind of like this close to frontier open source model

Josh:
that was expected to change the world in a meaningful way.

Josh:
It did not go as Zuck foresaw and therefore they went and they closed off all

Josh:
their model development and went closed source just like all of the other labs now

Josh:
they're going back they're transitioning back to open source and as a result

Josh:
they've spent a tremendous amount of money on this so what happened in the last

Josh:
earnings report after all the capex spend came in

Josh:
zuck just dropped a 14 page paper explaining exactly why they're making a re-entry

Josh:
into the open source world

Josh:
That entry is defined by a singular model that we're going to talk about right

Josh:
now called Muse Glimmer. And Muse Glimmer is a really impressive model that

Josh:
fits on your laptop, runs locally, and I think it's going to shift the world of open source AI.

Ejaaz:
I think this is a great move from Zuck and Meta. And this is coming from probably

Ejaaz:
the Meta's biggest bear in the past on this show.

Josh:
Yeah, definitely. We're professional haters. I should preface this with.

Ejaaz:
I'm a professional hair of Zuck and Meta for the last six months,

Ejaaz:
but I love to see this pivot.

Ejaaz:
And I'll explain why. Number one, Metz's entire philosophy around AI has always

Ejaaz:
been open source. And his simple reasoning behind that is he believes like everyone

Ejaaz:
should get access to this thing, right?

Ejaaz:
If everyone has access to this thing, there'll be no centralized core power

Ejaaz:
for AI. There's no AI overlord going forwards. He then kind of pivoted on that,

Ejaaz:
like you mentioned, and now he's back with not one, but two new open source

Ejaaz:
models. So what are the models?

Ejaaz:
Number one, the headline is called Muse Glimmer. It's an open-weight,

Ejaaz:
open-source, 30 billion parameter model.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you're not familiar with the sizes of these relative models,

Ejaaz:
this is a pretty tiny model.

Ejaaz:
It can actually fit and run on your MacBook. It's 20 gigabytes of data or RAM

Ejaaz:
that it requires, which is significantly smaller than any other frontier model,

Ejaaz:
which is like hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of gigabytes.

Ejaaz:
And the way that they were able to achieve this is they took a bigger model,

Ejaaz:
and they made it smaller. It's something called quantization.

Ejaaz:
Now, why did they create this model?

Ejaaz:
Well, he believes or Meta believes that locally run private AI models.

Ejaaz:
Should be the future of how AI models are dispersed amongst everyone.

Ejaaz:
Right now, we pay subscriptions to get access to a model that lives in the cloud,

Ejaaz:
that lives in a centralized company like Anthropic, like OpenAI.

Ejaaz:
With this model, you can kind of run it locally.

Ejaaz:
And that brings several different advantages that we've mentioned quite a few

Ejaaz:
times on this show. The first one being it's cheap as hell.

Ejaaz:
The second one being it can run on your private data, so it can become a lot

Ejaaz:
more smarter and attuned to you specifically.

Ejaaz:
And the third thing is it's very efficient when it serves you answers and results

Ejaaz:
to your different prompts. So I think it's a good model, but it's certainly not frontier in any way.

Josh:
Yeah, it's far from frontier. And I imagine they're probably not really concerned

Josh:
about that. We mentioned this on previous episodes where there is this fight

Josh:
for the frontier, but now there are different frontiers.

Josh:
There is the frontier of intelligence, which Anthropic and OpenAI are kind of

Josh:
working on. Then there's the frontier of cost and efficiency per token.

Josh:
That's kind of where I see meta of place in themselves. In fact,

Josh:
they're fighting on multiple fronts at once.

Josh:
And it seems like Muse Glimmer is sitting at the very base of that because it

Josh:
is such a small model, it's so quantized, it's able to actually run on a local machine.

Josh:
I think the fully capable largest version of this takes about 55 gigabytes of

Josh:
memory, which runs on my MacBook that I have sitting on my desk right now.

Josh:
And that's really impressive.

Josh:
This puts them in a race that not many other companies are competing on,

Josh:
which is just like that edge inference local compute thing that I think we can

Josh:
expect to see out of Apple Fairleague soon.

Josh:
Like with the new Siri going to be running on local models, this is very much

Josh:
feels like a response to that.

Josh:
Where now for the first time you're able to run this free inference that's fairly

Josh:
capable it has a somewhat large context window i believe a couple hundred thousand

Josh:
tokens i'm not sure the exact number but a couple hundred thousand

Josh:
Tokens of context it has you know pretty good outputs in terms of tokens per second

Josh:
and it runs at a level that you would expect a frontier model would have ran at

Josh:
maybe say 18 months ago so it's not going to do any crazy difficult complicated

Josh:
tasks but for something that can run on your machine you could use anywhere

Josh:
in the world at any given time and you can trust it to manage all of your data.

Josh:
So for example, if you have a machine runs a lot of sensitive information,

Josh:
you want to put health information through that, you might not want to give

Josh:
to a public facing model.

Josh:
This is a really easy way of doing that in a way that we haven't really had before.

Josh:
And I think that's kind of step one in this new strategy that Zuckerberg's going

Josh:
for in, I guess you could call it like scorched earth 2.0, where why do you

Josh:
open source models? Well, you want everyone to go off, build on them to remove

Josh:
margins away from these frontier labs.

Josh:
And this seems like the first version of that that people are are kind of

Ejaaz:
Excited about and you see him apply this logic to quite a few of his models

Ejaaz:
now like he also open weighted or he plans to open weight.

Ejaaz:
Muse spark 1.2 which if you have been following along with the show

Ejaaz:
was a brand new model metas frontier model that they released i think it was

Ejaaz:
like a week and a half ago and what made muse spark 1.2 really special is it's a really good

Ejaaz:
coding model in the way that they've kind of engineered AI agents to kind of

Ejaaz:
like replicate amongst themselves,

Ejaaz:
take your code and go work in parallel.

Ejaaz:
So it's a really efficient way of working. And that's kind of like Meta's core

Ejaaz:
thesis, I feel, with a lot of these models that they're releasing.

Ejaaz:
It's like they're not trying to get the most intelligent model,

Ejaaz:
but they're trying to produce the most cheapest and affordable model that still

Ejaaz:
gets about 90 to 95% of the work done.

Ejaaz:
And Zuck has said in many times over the last couple of months that this is

Ejaaz:
Meta's core philosophy. They believe that locally private-run,

Ejaaz:
effective AI models will eventually outcompete the frontier. Now.

Ejaaz:
When you kind of compare these models, right, you're probably listening to this

Ejaaz:
and you're thinking, okay, who cares? Meta has a model. I haven't used Meta

Ejaaz:
AI intelligence in God knows how long.

Ejaaz:
Why should I use this model? Well, if you are using, say, the Anthropic or OpenAI

Ejaaz:
API and you're spending a couple thousand bucks a month, even a couple hundred

Ejaaz:
bucks a month, if you're an enterprise that's spending 10 to hundreds of millions of dollars per year,

Ejaaz:
this might be a model that might be more bang for your buck.

Ejaaz:
And listen, you're not going to use it for everything. You're not going to get

Ejaaz:
it to plan your entire company strategy.

Ejaaz:
You're not going to get it to build a brand new app from scratch and expect

Ejaaz:
it to be the best thing, but you'll use it as a workhorse, maybe in conjunction

Ejaaz:
with some of these more intelligent models.

Ejaaz:
So it's great to see Zuck kind of like reprise Meta's role in open source.

Ejaaz:
If we remember, like in the past, it was Lama and then he kind of like pivoted

Ejaaz:
and everyone was like kind of super angry about this. I'm glad that he's doing this.

Ejaaz:
The question is like, why is he doing this, right? Like, you know,

Ejaaz:
why would this make sense for Meta, which is a for-profit publicly traded company,

Ejaaz:
he sucks, still wants to make a lot of money.

Ejaaz:
How does this make any sense at all? And he kind of dropped his entire thesis

Ejaaz:
yesterday when he announced that he's open weighting a bunch of these models.

Ejaaz:
He goes, I believe everyone should have access to super intelligence.

Ejaaz:
And I wrote a long piece about Meta's philosophy and values for building that world.

Ejaaz:
And essentially like this future that he describes balances on like three core

Ejaaz:
pillars. Number one is he believes everyone should be individually empowered,

Ejaaz:
aka get access to their own private AI model and that it shouldn't be centered

Ejaaz:
in specific frontier AI labs.

Ejaaz:
Number two, he believes the thing that pushes humanity going forwards is invention.

Ejaaz:
So humans' ability and intention to invent brand new things should drive who

Ejaaz:
gets access to these different models. And that could be anyone and everyone.

Ejaaz:
And the third thing is he just believes in a core balance of power,

Ejaaz:
which is something ironically that adversaries over in China have been advocating

Ejaaz:
for a while now. So it's nice to see like a frontier American AI lab advocate for the same.

Josh:
It is, but it feels a little bit like I can't, I can't feel like this is a high

Josh:
conviction post because the sentiment has changed so much.

Josh:
It's not like he's like they started this way, but then they changed this way

Josh:
when it wasn't working. And now that things are working, they're going to go

Josh:
back and start to believe this. It feels like they're just not really standing strong.

Josh:
On morals over time and this this could be the wrong guess but i mean he's he's

Josh:
here saying basically the exact arguments that everyone's been arguing for a

Josh:
very long time it's like we don't trust a single monoculture to handle this

Josh:
we don't believe that the future of humanity is going to be

Josh:
best served by two to three companies we we don't believe that any company who

Josh:
thinks that ai will eliminate most jobs would rush to build it faster than anyone

Josh:
else and these are the arguments that we've heard for a really long time and

Josh:
we just get these echoed over and over again

Josh:
as the company starts to fit more of this mold i mean the essay was interesting

Josh:
what i will be most interested in is just seeing what the actual downstream effects are of

Josh:
these new essays and like hopefully it seems like zuck is getting more confident

Josh:
that they're going to figure this out that they're going to actually be releasing

Josh:
models that can meaningfully

Josh:
shift the way people engage with ai and this is probably like the starting gun

Josh:
he's like hey new era new company new ethos we're going to start running with

Josh:
this and see how it goes and so far it looks like they're kind of on their way

Josh:
like things are pretty good i was looking at

Josh:
Muse glimmer and i actually i want to try this one so my plan is to install

Josh:
this on my local machine today and give it a go

Josh:
because one of the things that is unique about this one is for people who are

Josh:
still using open claw remember that thing um this actually is a very agentic

Josh:
model that runs end-to-end for task completion

Josh:
it uses agents it has tool use it has multi-step reasoning it has multimodal

Josh:
input and output it seems like a really strong and powerful model yeah we could

Josh:
see here kind of how good it is at creating visuals, how good it is in benchmarks.

Josh:
And it's an actually usable model in a way that I don't think a lot of these

Josh:
others have been. So I'm taking this 14 page paper with a grain of salt. I...

Josh:
Read some of it. I didn't get my way through all of it. EJS,

Josh:
I know you said you read the entire thing.

Josh:
I'm excited for Meta. I want them to win. So I'm hoping this is the new starting

Josh:
point for them to release better models, to really get back in the game,

Josh:
to compete. Because, I mean, yeah, duopolies are less than ideal.

Josh:
We want a lot of people competing for a lot of different parts of the pie.

Josh:
And if Meta is going to come out here and do it and do so open source,

Josh:
that's great. And you got to imagine Jensen sitting over here pretty happy too, Mr.

Josh:
Open Source King, that now there's another company in the running for making

Josh:
really compelling open source models in the United States.

Ejaaz:
I think it's actions over words, though. Zuck has talked this talk for a while, you're right.

Ejaaz:
But he's also the guy that's releasing like the frontier open source models in America.

Ejaaz:
You see all the other AI labs. Look, I'll give you an example here.

Ejaaz:
Satya Nadella, bunch of people signed that they're in favor of open source and

Ejaaz:
open weight movements in general, but they haven't released any frontier open models themselves. So

Ejaaz:
I look at actions over words and Zuck, yeah, he's flailed around quite a bit.

Ejaaz:
And I've been a big critique of that, but he's come back.

Ejaaz:
And I'm going to judge him by his actions going forwards and we'll see what

Ejaaz:
he actually uses this for.

Ejaaz:
Now, the bad case for this is this is like an old school business move that

Ejaaz:
he's making, which is let's flood the market with intelligence that is basically free.

Ejaaz:
So we commoditize the paid subscriptions that other frontier labs are paying for.

Ejaaz:
And that brings down their value, that brings down their profit margins,

Ejaaz:
their revenue, and it allows Meta more time to catch up. Now,

Ejaaz:
is this a costly and risky endeavor? Yes.

Ejaaz:
Meta has burned, what is it, like $30 billion in acquiring 150 staff to produce

Ejaaz:
a model that is sub-frontier. If you were a shareholder, you're probably looking

Ejaaz:
at this and thinking, Zuck, what are you doing?

Ejaaz:
But if you look at what he's been investing in outside of that.

Ejaaz:
I think he's on track to spend, I think, $210 billion this year through the

Ejaaz:
first half of next year on Datacenter CapEx.

Ejaaz:
He is one of the largest holders of NVIDIA GPUs. He's secured like one of the

Ejaaz:
largest arsenals of NVIDIA Rubins, which is their next-gen GPU architecture.

Ejaaz:
Second only to Elon Musk, you have to question, okay, what's he going to use

Ejaaz:
all of this compute for? Well, he could rent it out, which is what SpaceX is

Ejaaz:
doing and make a bag from that.

Ejaaz:
But he's also probably going to train a bunch of frontier models.

Ejaaz:
And the biggest signal for whether he's actually going to be able to pull this

Ejaaz:
off is model release cadence.

Ejaaz:
And in the last, I think 90 days, he's released two models, but he's going to

Ejaaz:
release another two more over the next, I think it's like one to two months.

Ejaaz:
I think you mentioned in some tweet thread, Elon Musk is planning to do the same.

Ejaaz:
So I'm seeing this trend where the companies that, even though they're a little

Ejaaz:
bit behind in frontier intelligence, who have the most compute,

Ejaaz:
who have the most capital, are still able to kind of ship models iteratively

Ejaaz:
and maybe respond to the market quicker than some of these other frontier labs. Now,

Ejaaz:
I appreciate that that's optimistic thinking, but I do think Zuck is back in

Ejaaz:
the game and I'm excited to see what these models are like. I want to play around

Ejaaz:
with this Muse Spark 1.2 and this new one that I can run on my laptop and see

Ejaaz:
what fun things we can come up with.

Josh:
Yeah, I was trying to unpack the reasoning. I'm like, okay, why did he make

Josh:
this pivot again? It seems like there's so much uncertainty in the strategy of meta so far.

Josh:
And there really does appear to be some pretty compelling reasons that are kind

Josh:
of underlying this decision.

Josh:
Because when you think about meta the company i was like okay what does meta

Josh:
actually do meta is just an attention salesman

Josh:
their biggest part of the business is advertising and sales through that

Josh:
all their services are mostly free to use you can pay for a blue check mark if you want

Josh:
but most their users are free and they have this tremendous user base so they

Josh:
can sell a subscription to those people but those people are not used to and

Josh:
not very probably likely excited to pay

Josh:
twenty dollars a month to use an ai system that can be offered for free because

Josh:
you have to assume the average user doesn't need frontier class intelligence

Josh:
so if the model is attention

Josh:
And if you can improve your core business through AI, then that's probably what

Josh:
they want to do. And that's probably why open source makes sense.

Josh:
I mean, yeah, meta already announced it wants to use your AI chats to personalize the ads

Josh:
and it wants you to use the AI to build a large profile on you, to build

Josh:
a josh.md, an ejaz.md that has all of our preferences, all the things we care

Josh:
about, that gets updated in real time, and that has an increasing amount of

Josh:
ways in which you can collect context on you.

Josh:
And if you are trying to do this then you really just want these models to be

Josh:
free and accessible and open to collect as much data as possible to feel like

Josh:
there is no friction to getting in the game and then also just to kind of like just chip away at the

Josh:
the frontier labs margins where if there's someone who is deciding between a

Josh:
20 model or just going into their instagram app and using this cool new chatbot

Josh:
that they have like chances are a lot of people are going to choose to use the

Josh:
chatbot and that puts them

Josh:
in a way i guess it's kind of unique to them where they're they're competing

Josh:
on edge inference in a way somewhat with apple and what they will be doing with

Josh:
the new siri but they're also competing with google in the ads business if

Josh:
they're going to have just as much if not more data than google has

Josh:
When it comes to search queries and like think about how custom the advertising

Josh:
can be and not even advertising but content creation in general if meta understands

Josh:
what type of content you like how you engage with certain types of content it

Josh:
can serve this very custom profile that allows custom generated content just

Josh:
for you all in the effort of selling you more ads.

Josh:
And I think this is the reality of Meta is as they've tried to pivot to hardware,

Josh:
they've done all these other exploratory things.

Josh:
It still just comes down to the core business is selling people ads.

Josh:
And it's like understanding who their user is, pairing them with a seller and

Josh:
collecting commission off of those sales.

Josh:
And I think this is probably just a natural extension of that.

Josh:
And they're going to continue to make these products more compelling and more

Josh:
capable through these very lightweight AI models.

Ejaaz:
At the end of the day, Meta is obviously a for-profit company.

Ejaaz:
They're trying to make money and ads, as you said, is like their main business.

Ejaaz:
So, you know, they're definitely going to focus on that.

Ejaaz:
But I also think in the wider market of AI, a bunch of things have shifted recently

Ejaaz:
that we just can't ignore.

Ejaaz:
The first one being, you don't need the most intelligent model to do anything

Ejaaz:
and everything for you. I was catching up with a friend who is pretty high up

Ejaaz:
at a top, I would say, Fortune 100 company.

Ejaaz:
And I asked him, like, you know, how are you using AI these days?

Ejaaz:
Like, do you use private models? Do you use the standard models from Anthropic and OpenAI?

Ejaaz:
And he said, I've shifted completely to some of these open source models,

Ejaaz:
as well as just cheaper models in general.

Ejaaz:
And I get it to do the bulk of my work whilst I use Accord or GPT 5.6 to brainstorm

Ejaaz:
kind of like the architecture of what I want to build.

Ejaaz:
And I'm seeing this pattern reflected across a number of different enterprises.

Ejaaz:
It's certainly been reported across social media like every single day.

Ejaaz:
We're seeing the shift of companies thinking, I'm not going to just needlessly

Ejaaz:
spend a bunch of money on frontier intelligence. I certainly will for some things,

Ejaaz:
but I want to explore some of the cheaper options, right? And you can look at

Ejaaz:
the business models of the frontier labs themselves, right?

Ejaaz:
I think over the last 90 days, eight models have been released,

Ejaaz:
three of them alone from OpenAI, right? Why didn't they just release GPT-5.6

Ejaaz:
Sol? Why did they release Luna? Why did they release Terra?

Ejaaz:
Why did they slash the price of Luna by 80% a month ago? Why did Anthropic yesterday,

Ejaaz:
I think, announce that they're going to keep Claude Sonnet, I believe,

Ejaaz:
at the cheapest price ever indefinitely.

Ejaaz:
I think these companies are realizing that cheaper models are definitely applicable

Ejaaz:
and have an advantageous incentive for the customers that they're trying to

Ejaaz:
sell to, whether it's enterprises or consumer customers.

Ejaaz:
And you need more bang for your buck. Zuck realizes this, and he's seizing the

Ejaaz:
opportunity, but he's being more aggressive with the open source side of things.

Ejaaz:
And I think Zuck has enough capital at Meta to be able to keep this train going

Ejaaz:
for a while now. So I'm interested to see how what meta and specifically SpaceX

Ejaaz:
looks like over the next couple of months.

Ejaaz:
I think SpaceX is also teasing their next model and they've released like two

Ejaaz:
over the last like three weeks today, which should hopefully be releasing.

Ejaaz:
But yeah, I think there's something that

Ejaaz:
they're going to pull off something cool.

Josh:
Yeah i'm looking forward to it i'm looking forward to all the agents that they're

Josh:
going to spawn from these new models because if you are working with agents

Josh:
you know you know who we got to talk about and that's ledger our sponsor of

Josh:
this episode um because they have this infrastructure for agents in which it's kind of three parts

Josh:
agents propose then the human approves and then

Josh:
the ledger signer enforces the ledger signer is this mostly comes in the form

Josh:
of a hardware wallet in which you can approve or deny we talk a lot about security

Josh:
and how a lot of these agents can kind of go rogue and do things you may not want

Josh:
ledger offers an agent stack which is a series of open source tools that allows you to

Josh:
evaluate what these agents are doing across the way you could tell it to do

Josh:
things like rebalance your wallet

Josh:
or adjust whatever parameters you want to adjust and then it will propose you

Josh:
approve and the ledger signer enforces it works with cloud code

Josh:
codex all of the places that you work with ai on a daily basis so thank you

Josh:
so much to ledger for sponsoring this part of the episode you can get their

Josh:
products at the link in the description below.

Josh:
EJS, you mentioned capex spend, or you actually didn't mention capex spend.

Josh:
You mentioned strong earnings, but I'm going to mention capex spend,

Josh:
which is their free cashflow.

Josh:
Like we have to talk about the earnings quickly because like we do want to get

Josh:
a little bit economic here. Like how viable is this strategy?

Josh:
Their free cashflow this year, which means basically the money that comes in

Josh:
and out is down 91% year over year.

Josh:
They're spending, They're spending big on a few key pillars.

Josh:
One of them is this open source bet, which does not have an immediate ROI because,

Josh:
I mean, again, they're offering these weights for free.

Josh:
The other is on their hardware platform. One of the things that is like still

Josh:
shocking to me, and I'm not sure that many people know about this,

Josh:
Meta owns 70 to 80% of the entire AI glasses market.

Josh:
And this is not a big market, but this is a market that is meaningful and that

Josh:
probably shouldn't be overlooked.

Josh:
This is done exclusively with a company named Luxottica. Together,

Josh:
they have more than tripled Meta's AI glasses sales just in the year of 2025.

Josh:
We haven't gotten 2026 numbers yet, but like that is kind of noteworthy it's interesting to see the

Josh:
floor of the capex guidance being raised too in 2026 meta is guiding for 145

Josh:
billion dollars of spend which is just this like unfathomably large number

Josh:
and when you think about the places that it's going to land well it's certainly

Josh:
open source it's certainly hardware but like what else are they really just

Josh:
going to go all in on building out data centers and gpus to make larger models is that

Josh:
is that the end game? Because I don't see them competing on the frontier.

Josh:
So do they really need that much compute in order to compete for open source, open weight models?

Ejaaz:
I think so. I think the number one factor that determines how good your AI offering is, is compute.

Ejaaz:
At the end of the day, Elon's going to prove that with SpaceX.

Ejaaz:
And I think Zuck is planning to do the same thing.

Ejaaz:
We saw NVIDIA or Jensen Huang announced yesterday that he secured an additional

Ejaaz:
$500 billion of revenue and capital investment for future compute.

Ejaaz:
We see OpenAI partnering with NVIDIA for a similar amount, half a trillion dollars.

Ejaaz:
You see Anthropic securing deals with Riot yesterday with an old cryptographic

Ejaaz:
mining company to secure even more compute.

Ejaaz:
Compute is the ultimate indicator on whether you can create a better model.

Ejaaz:
It is the one thing that is consistent across all competitors in the AI race.

Ejaaz:
And I think Zuck believes if he amasses enough of it, if he secures enough allocation

Ejaaz:
of frontier NVIDIA GPUs, he'll be able to pull off and build better models.

Ejaaz:
Now, whether the open source strategy plays out, again, it's that strategy that

Ejaaz:
I think I mentioned earlier, which is flood the market with commoditized intelligence,

Ejaaz:
cut down or cut into revenue and margins of your competitors.

Ejaaz:
Yeah, Meta's CapEx takes a beating in the short term, but hopefully that plays

Ejaaz:
better in the long term when you have personalized agents that all run on Meta's

Ejaaz:
infrastructure and consumer apps.

Ejaaz:
Also, remember, Meta has like 4 billion consumers right now.

Ejaaz:
I was scrolling on Reels yesterday, which I don't like to admit,

Ejaaz:
but a ton of them are now Meta glasses.

Ejaaz:
I don't know if you've seen this, Josh, but it's this POV from a bunch of different people.

Ejaaz:
And I think that they don't have the best hardware, but they have one of the

Ejaaz:
most amazing distributions ever. I think 4 billion, and then you compare that

Ejaaz:
to Apple, which has, I think, 3.5 billion live Apple devices right now.

Ejaaz:
It's probably a lot more. I think that data is outdated.

Ejaaz:
They have a real competing moat here. And I look at Google, who has recently

Ejaaz:
gone into negative cash flow. Meta isn't quite there yet.

Ejaaz:
So you could argue that they're being somewhat conservative.

Ejaaz:
They have other businesses that are earning a ton of money that can support this for a while, but,

Ejaaz:
They don't have infinite runway. And, you know, maybe we'll see Meta raising

Ejaaz:
external capital similar to how Intel and Google has over the last couple of

Ejaaz:
months. I don't know. We'll see.

Josh:
Yeah. And I was going to ask the question whether or not this CapEx spend is

Josh:
existential. Like what happens if they fail again?

Josh:
Because this isn't their first time trying to get a frontier model that works

Josh:
really well and the first time did not go as planned. And then I was thinking, well, you know what?

Josh:
At least they have the GPUs and they could just go resell those and make a great business out of it.

Josh:
So there's this really weird part of the market now where it's very advantageous

Josh:
to just spend money on building data centers. And even if you can't figure out

Josh:
how to use them yourself, you just sell them off to the next best guy and you

Josh:
can make a tremendous amount of money from that infrastructure build out.

Josh:
So I think at the very least, you could find a lot of solace in that idea in

Josh:
terms of users. Like that's a great point that, I mean, 4 billion users is half of the planet.

Josh:
There's not many companies in the world that I'm not sure if there's any companies

Josh:
in the world with that quite as many users as meta, or there's a very small handful of them.

Josh:
So if they're able to figure out how to, I mean, weaponize is like a terrible

Josh:
word for this, but like able to leverage their AI tools to further create compelling

Josh:
offerings on their social media platforms, like that's a pretty big value unlock.

Josh:
So I'm excited. I'm cautiously optimistic on meta.

Josh:
Like I'm still looking for signals that they are going to figure it out.

Josh:
But like you mentioned, when you're watching reels, a lot of it are coming from

Josh:
the glasses. It's this novel form of creating content. It's this cool new paradigm

Josh:
that every other company is working for. And right now, I mean,

Josh:
say what you want, like they are in the lead.

Josh:
It's maybe not the best piece of hardware in the world, but they have the best one available.

Josh:
And we'll see what happens with the company. But that's kind of the update.

Josh:
Meta is going open source again. The boys are back and they are spending a lot

Josh:
of money and they are very clearly hellbent on making the best open source models

Josh:
that they can and implementing them.

Josh:
Across the entire product stack while continuing to iterate on their hardware

Josh:
products and weird science projects like remember the the pupil dilation tracker

Josh:
and like the this brainwave scanner that they're using to like understand how content affects you and

Josh:
it's going to be a weird future with meta but they're working on it nonetheless

Josh:
full speed ahead and um yeah we'll just continue to cover it as we go along this journey here

Ejaaz:
Also i will just say this if you're listening to this episode and you are a

Ejaaz:
builder, there has never been a better time to be alive.

Ejaaz:
Like all these tools, all these models, all these products that are being released

Ejaaz:
over the last couple of months that are being increased in frequency are all

Ejaaz:
for you to trial test out.

Ejaaz:
If it's too expensive for you to buy a Claude Mac subscription,

Ejaaz:
play around with some of these open source models. If you don't think that the

Ejaaz:
American frontier open source models are good enough, play around with some

Ejaaz:
of these open weight or open source Chinese models.

Ejaaz:
There is no excuse to not be using these things.

Ejaaz:
If you have access to it, if you have a project or a hobby or an idea in your

Ejaaz:
mind, go out there, try these things that we're talking about and honestly give

Ejaaz:
us feedback because we'd love to hear from builders to see what you guys are

Ejaaz:
actually doing with the thing.

Ejaaz:
Maybe we're missing something and maybe you can kind of like shine a light on

Ejaaz:
something that we're completely missing.

Ejaaz:
But we will be covering anything and everything on Limitless going forwards.

Ejaaz:
That is the end of this episode. You're all caught up on all of things meta

Ejaaz:
related. They've done a pivot.

Ejaaz:
They've turned it around and I'm excited to see where the company is in a couple months' time.

Ejaaz:
That being said, wherever you're listening to us, if it's on YouTube and you

Ejaaz:
aren't subscribed, if the notifications aren't turned on, please do so.

Ejaaz:
It helps us out massively.

Ejaaz:
If you haven't left us a comment on Spotify, Apple Music, or even YouTube as

Ejaaz:
well, please do so. We have been loving the comments, by the way. I think we've

Ejaaz:
gotten in the in the realm of like i don't know it's like a thousand two thousand

Ejaaz:
plus comments over the last like five episodes keep them coming we love hearing

Ejaaz:
from you guys we respond to anything and everything,

Ejaaz:
as soon as we have like free time available um and then yeah we have a newsletter

Ejaaz:
that goes out to over a hundred thousand of you we post twice a week i think

Ejaaz:
this week we getting three times because josh and i can't keep our gobs shut

Ejaaz:
but um josh anything anything well and most.

Josh:
Most of all don't forget to gift this to a friend if there's someone else who

Josh:
you know that would benefit from watching this every single day who wakes up

Josh:
in the morning goes up with a little walk for their dog or like on their morning

Josh:
commute that wants something to listen to 25 minutes long that will get sometimes

Josh:
a little bit longer but that will get them up to speed on everything like

Josh:
it's always much appreciated it's how we grow the best so as always thank you

Josh:
so much for making it to the end of the episode real ones only here at the conclusion

Josh:
thank you for watching and we will see you in the next episode