Limitless: An AI Podcast

Ejaaz:
If you invested $25,000 in SanDisk last year, you'd have a million dollars today.

Ejaaz:
Memory stocks have absolutely skyrocketed, and the reason behind that is simple.

Ejaaz:
It's AI. Memory has become the core component behind GPUs, CPUs.

Ejaaz:
It actually makes up 50% of the materials cost to actually build AI models today.

Ejaaz:
And just six weeks ago, a new memory ETF launched, giving you exposure to the

Ejaaz:
top three memory manufacturers, SK Hynix, Samsung, and Micron.

Ejaaz:
And just under a month from launching, it is up over 100%. It took in over $6

Ejaaz:
billion in assets in the first five weeks of it operating.

Ejaaz:
In fact, Goldman Sachs referred to it as the fastest growing ETF that they've

Ejaaz:
seen with $1.1 billion worth of inflows in a single day. So this begs the question,

Ejaaz:
Is memory stocks or AI memory specifically a good investment to make right now

Ejaaz:
or has the bubble grown too much?

Ejaaz:
If we look historically at memory, it's gone under very volatile boom and bust cycles.

Ejaaz:
So in this episode, we're going to explore whether this makes sense at all.

Ejaaz:
And I think I would personally argue that I think this time is different.

Ejaaz:
Memory has undergone a significant shift of demand where AI is just consuming all available supply.

Josh:
So maybe just take a step back before we get into why. We could talk about what

Josh:
memory is as it is referred to around AI, which is basically high-speed chips

Josh:
that sit physically next to the GPU.

Josh:
And they hold the model weights and the data that the chips need in order to

Josh:
access during the inference and training run.

Josh:
So this matters because these large models are bottlenecked by not really how

Josh:
fast the GPU can do the math, but how fast it can pull data from that memory.

Josh:
So the speed and capacity of that memory directly determines how big and how

Josh:
fast a model can run. So if you want to publish AI tokens, if you want to generate

Josh:
tokens, memory is the single critical kingpin.

Josh:
And this is different than anything we've ever seen before, because for the

Josh:
last 40 years of time, memory was the pretty much textbook example of a horrible business.

Josh:
There are three suppliers that make these ships. There's Samsung,

Josh:
SK Hynix, Micron, and they make identical products, which are essentially a commodity.

Josh:
And it turned into this thing called a pig cycle, which is basically high prices.

Josh:
And then everyone builds the same fabs. And then there's oversupply,

Josh:
which results in price collapse. and this cycle has kind of run itself every

Josh:
couple of years since the 1980s.

Josh:
But Ijaz, like you said, this time is different. There are these two key traits

Josh:
that are converging that make it different this time.

Ejaaz:
So the first one is...

Ejaaz:
The demand sync that comes from AI for memory has vastly outpaced any other

Ejaaz:
demand sync that memory has had before.

Ejaaz:
So if you look at pre-AI memory stock charts and post-AI, it looks like completely

Ejaaz:
like a penny stock. It's just gone parabolic, right?

Ejaaz:
And so the question everyone's asking is, is this real? Well,

Ejaaz:
the answer is, it's true.

Ejaaz:
If you look at NVIDIA specifically, when the AI cycle really kicked off,

Ejaaz:
their GPUs were in incredible amounts of demand.

Ejaaz:
Now, back then, the models used a significant chunk of memory,

Ejaaz:
typically around 30% to 40% of the bill of materials cost for GPUs back then

Ejaaz:
for NVIDIA's early models went to memory, basically.

Ejaaz:
Now, if you fast forward to today, it's 50%. And if you look at every future

Ejaaz:
iteration, including Rubin, Rubin Ultra, and Feynman, that is going to be launched later in 2028.

Ejaaz:
Doesn't just require the same amount of memory, it requires 2,

Ejaaz:
3, and 4x the amount of memory for every single iteration.

Ejaaz:
So the point being is, there is an insatiable amount of demand for memory,

Ejaaz:
and there are different types of memory.

Ejaaz:
In fact, AI has created a completely new novel type of memory structure known

Ejaaz:
as HBM, high bandwidth memory,

Ejaaz:
which functions above the status of local genuine DRAM, which is like your standard

Ejaaz:
DRAM, which a lot of other consumer devices use, just for AI specifically.

Ejaaz:
So the point being is there are very limited amounts of memory available and

Ejaaz:
AI is eating up pretty much the majority of it right now.

Josh:
Yeah, so we have the network effects that are occurring just from AI demand,

Josh:
but the high bandwidth memory is a key structural difference that I think a

Josh:
lot of people aren't really aware of.

Josh:
If you imagine a single traditional stick of RAM, something that you might see

Josh:
plugged into a computer, you could think of it, that's like a one-story warehouse.

Josh:
What these AI chips require right next to the GPU is this thing called high

Josh:
bandwidth memory and that is a warehouse but stacked vertically

Josh:
mostly right now it's about 8 to 12 stacks high soon there's

Josh:
going to be 16 stacks high and that requires a lot of

Josh:
very precise materials a lot of engineering a lot of

Josh:
resources that make these chips far more complex but also

Josh:
constrain the supply far more i mean each gpu or each

Josh:
stick of memory is now approximately 8 to 12 sticks

Josh:
so you have this convergence of a few things one is just the

Josh:
need for them in order to generate tokens but specifically the

Josh:
need for that high bandwidth memory that makes a huge difference so

Josh:
now not only do we have the supply constraints coming in terms of the actual

Josh:
structural advantages that um hbm has but you also only have three people that

Josh:
actually produce this there are three manufacturers and the constraint is so

Josh:
tight that they have actually some of them stopped making commercially available

Josh:
ram because they're so focused on building

Josh:
purely memory for AI.

Ejaaz:
Yeah. And there's also a recent shift that has happened within AI in general

Ejaaz:
where previously it was very focused on AI training. And so it was very GPU heavy.

Ejaaz:
That's why NVIDIA is now like the most valuable company in the world.

Ejaaz:
Now that recently shifted towards inference. Inference is like where you prompt

Ejaaz:
or call on a model and you get an answer back.

Ejaaz:
Instead of humans doing the majority of the inference, we're finding that AI

Ejaaz:
models themselves or AI agents specifically are spending a lot of time thinking.

Ejaaz:
Talking amongst each other and coming up with a better output and a better answer.

Ejaaz:
That's what a lot of cutting edge models and AI products today actually do behind the scenes.

Ejaaz:
That requires a lot of inference. Now, if you want to do all that amount of

Ejaaz:
inference, you need not just a little bit more memory, you need a load more memory.

Ejaaz:
So the argument that's being made right now is in a future where the entire

Ejaaz:
economy is facilitated or propped up by AI agents, you're going to need like

Ejaaz:
10 to 50x more memory than we have available today.

Ejaaz:
And Ben from Stratechery did an amazing breakdown and I kind of like summarized

Ejaaz:
it here where basically the value of the opportunity is like 10 to 50x from

Ejaaz:
now and we don't currently have enough memory to do that.

Ejaaz:
And it immediately reminded me of another company, which was NVIDIA,

Ejaaz:
back when they were building out GPUs for gaming processing,

Ejaaz:
graphics processing specifically, And then they stumbled across this AI thing

Ejaaz:
where they were like, huh, it also needs parallel computing.

Ejaaz:
And now, like, the demand sync was crazy from AI. The same thing is happening

Ejaaz:
with memory, and these memory manufacturers are going to benefit the most.

Josh:
So we're going to get into what companies are best positioned for memory.

Josh:
But prior to that, it's probably makes sense to explain why this time is different,

Josh:
why the clock is ticking, where there's a perhaps a limited opportunity before

Josh:
the market starts to realize this structural change.

Josh:
Now, we mentioned the problems that are occurring in terms of just supply side

Josh:
due to the invention of HBM and just the requirement of that in every single GPU.

Josh:
But there's also a software side demand vector as well, which is the rise of agents.

Josh:
And we've mentioned this in a previous episode, but I think it's important to

Josh:
double down on, is the idea that you're not just talking to a singular chatbot anymore.

Josh:
And when you send a query to an LLM, like ChatGPT or like Claude,

Josh:
you create this thing called the KV cache.

Josh:
And that uses a lot of memory. It stores a lot of the context inside of this narrow window.

Josh:
Now, what happens with agents, which is the new paradigm, which is what a lot

Josh:
of these companies are shifting to, and a lot of people who are doing productive

Josh:
work are actually using, those agents, each one consumes their own KB cache,

Josh:
which means it needs, if you have 20 agents, you need 20 instances of memory.

Josh:
And there is no sign of that trend slowing down where there's more instances

Josh:
or more demand for agents, which means more context that needs to be remembered,

Josh:
which means significantly more of that HBM, which is a ready supply constraint.

Josh:
In fact, if you want to get some memory now, lead times are extended currently

Josh:
to the end of 2027 because there's just this inability to scale production.

Josh:
And I think when we answer the question of why this time is different,

Josh:
there are these unique structural changes, both on the hardware demand side,

Josh:
but also on the software supply side that both point to

Josh:
A pretty far out window in which you should start to worry about demand because

Josh:
there is just a very clear trend in one direction and a very clear under-indexing

Josh:
of the ability to supply all of the memory required to fulfill that trend.

Josh:
So I think that's something worth noting is that there are demands for this

Josh:
coming from all these different areas.

Ejaaz:
There's a physical constraint to building memory.

Ejaaz:
The top three providers cannot physically build out more capacity.

Ejaaz:
In fact, I was reading a story earlier this week where apparently

Ejaaz:
a bunch of different AI customers have been offering Micron and the likes of

Ejaaz:
Samsung and SK Hynix to help them build out or purchase equipment in exchange

Ejaaz:
for guaranteed capacity or supply in 2027 and 2028, right? You're not exaggerating that.

Ejaaz:
Currently, they're booked up until the end of 2027.

Ejaaz:
And so there's a physical constraint there. Typically in a bubble,

Ejaaz:
whether it's a memory bubble or a tech bubble in general,

Ejaaz:
you have some version of these companies faking demand, and they're levering

Ejaaz:
up to create a supply which ends up becoming an oversupply.

Ejaaz:
So there's too much of the product out there, and so prices kind of like crash

Ejaaz:
demand kind of like sinks. That isn't the case here.

Ejaaz:
If you look at every quarterly earnings report from each of these three manufacturers,

Ejaaz:
who are all public, by the way,

Ejaaz:
you can see that these back orders, that these bookings are not only legitimate,

Ejaaz:
but they're already paid for

Ejaaz:
in advance, which typically doesn't happen with any of these contracts.

Ejaaz:
So you have legitimate cash on the books that you can then use as a cash projection

Ejaaz:
or a forward projection for a lot of these companies. In fact,

Ejaaz:
if you look at Micron, their forward earnings right now is under 10, which.

Ejaaz:
Isn't definable within a bubble where if you look in like past historical cycles,

Ejaaz:
that typically hits around 30 to between 30 to 50 affords earnings ratio.

Ejaaz:
So the point is, it's legitimate as far as we can say.

Ejaaz:
Now, skeptics are saying, maybe it's the earnings that is the bubble.

Ejaaz:
So the earnings that they're reporting isn't actually real, but that's harder

Ejaaz:
to pick apart than what we're seeing right now.

Josh:
Yeah, I was actually going to mention, I think that's such an important point. the idea

Josh:
that although these companies are trading so much higher sandisk is

Josh:
up 1500 percent the forward pe ratio which

Josh:
is the price to earnings basically what premium it trades for on a

Josh:
relative basis versus what it's worth today is only 9 to 12x and it's lower

Josh:
for samsung at 7x and it's even lower for sk hynix at 5 to 6x so they're not

Josh:
really trading at a premium relative to what they're guiding for their estimates

Josh:
and revenue to be if you take a company like tesla i think that's currently trading at 40 to 50x.

Josh:
And companies like Microsoft or Amazon are like 15 to 20x.

Josh:
So these memory stocks on a relative basis are actually valued pretty in line

Josh:
with what you'd expect for a industry that's doing very well.

Josh:
And that's noteworthy. So let's get into the actual stocks, the companies that

Josh:
people can participate in, or at least look at if they're interested in participating

Josh:
in this. There are three large players.

Josh:
There is SK Hynix, their Samsung, and their SanDisk.

Josh:
I'm seeing another ticker here, which perhaps you could walk us through,

Josh:
which is MU up 864%. Why is that up so much?

Ejaaz:
Yeah, I mean, it's Micron. Micron is up over 8x over the last year.

Ejaaz:
The primary reason for that is the other two companies, the biggest memory manufacturers,

Ejaaz:
which is SK Hynix and Samsung electronics are based in Korea.

Ejaaz:
So if you're in the West, or if you're in America specifically,

Ejaaz:
and you want to get exposure to these stocks, it's not as easy as going on to

Ejaaz:
your Chase stock account and purchasing these, you can't exactly do that.

Ejaaz:
There's a few more hoops to jump through, and most people aren't willing to do that.

Ejaaz:
So another way of getting exposure to this thing is to buy the main American memory manufacturer.

Ejaaz:
And there is one clear leader, which is Micron. So their stock has absolutely set.

Ejaaz:
And to be fair, in Micron's defense, they produce a really good product and

Ejaaz:
they are one of the advanced suppliers.

Ejaaz:
But if you want to talk about who the king is, it is SK Hynix.

Ejaaz:
They have been the sole and main provider for memory, for NVIDIA and all their future GPUs.

Ejaaz:
In fact, in the same way that NVIDIA has booked out the majority of capacity

Ejaaz:
for TSMC to build their GPUs, they have done the same with SK Hynix.

Ejaaz:
So the reason why those people that I mentioned earlier are trying to like pay

Ejaaz:
off SK Hynix for guaranteed supply in the future is because NVIDIA owns the

Ejaaz:
monopoly on all capacity for SK Hynix going forward.

Ejaaz:
So SK Hynix is like the strongest. Samsung Electronics is next.

Ejaaz:
Samsung Electronics does a ton of other stuff, which is why it's not a pure

Ejaaz:
concentrated bet on memory.

Ejaaz:
And then you have Micron, which is like the American bet. Now,

Ejaaz:
what I want to speak about is that ETF I mentioned earlier, Josh,

Ejaaz:
that launched six weeks ago.

Ejaaz:
That is like the fastest-growing ETF, I think is like $5 billion worth of inflows

Ejaaz:
over the last five weeks or $6 billion.

Ejaaz:
Um, it's this thing called DRAM. It's a fantastic ticker and it's a memory ETF.

Ejaaz:
And the reason why it's so unique is two reasons.

Ejaaz:
One, it's accessible in the West, but two, it's a basket exposure to those two

Ejaaz:
Korean companies that I mentioned earlier on. It owns SK Hynix shares.

Ejaaz:
It owns Samsung Electronics shares, but it also owns Micron.

Ejaaz:
In fact, all three of these companies, I think make up around 70% of the entire

Ejaaz:
basket. So it's a very concentrated play on memory, AI memory specifically.

Ejaaz:
And then it also owns smaller stakes in the likes of SanDisk and Westgate,

Ejaaz:
which is a different type of memory that is still equally important for the AI trade.

Josh:
We have a great visual on this i think this is probably what most people will

Josh:
be interested in participating in just showing the holdings within this i mean

Josh:
this is the access that you want if you want access to the korean companies

Josh:
it has 24 sk hynix 25 micron technology 5 in wd 6

Josh:
seagate samsung is 20 so this is probably the most

Josh:
balanced basket of exposure this is personally what i'm most

Josh:
interested in if you don't want to think about it too much you just set it

Josh:
and forget it uh ejash you mentioned this to me a little while

Josh:
ago and since then it has gone absolutely nuclear this seems

Josh:
to be the singular place in which people are converging on

Josh:
if they don't want to do all the hard work of picking winners and losers

Josh:
in fact this has recently gotten enough

Josh:
attention to where they have leveled it up even once

Josh:
more so now there is a ticker that goes by the

Josh:
name of just ram instead of dram which is the etf that

Josh:
covers basically the entire memory market and this is a 2x

Josh:
leverage long memory etf that is going

Josh:
to be launching very soon so if you really want to go risk on

Josh:
if you really believe in the memory trade over a long period of time there are

Josh:
tools available to be able to enable you to gamble on this to the full extent

Josh:
i'll probably just stick with the regular dram etf but for those ambitious this

Josh:
is probably the best way to get access to those individuals particularly if

Josh:
you listen in the united states like most of us do and you want access to those Korean powerhouses,

Josh:
this is a pretty good way of doing it.

Ejaaz:
Now, I'm sure what a lot of listeners are thinking as you're hearing what we're

Ejaaz:
saying is, okay, well, all these stocks are up

Ejaaz:
5 to 8x, we've completely missed the trade.

Ejaaz:
Why on earth would we potentially want to invest in this? Is this a bubble? Is this going to pop?

Ejaaz:
And there is feasibility to argue that that might be the case.

Ejaaz:
This time isn't actually different.

Ejaaz:
In fact, if we look at the historical context of these memory suppliers,

Ejaaz:
on the left here in 2000, there were 11 main manufacturers of memory.

Ejaaz:
And it's important to understand that memory has gone through boom and bust

Ejaaz:
cycles for the better part of the last two to three decades.

Ejaaz:
And with every boom and bust cycle, you end up with fewer players,

Ejaaz:
which brings us over to the right over here, which this is funny,

Ejaaz:
this was in 2013, Josh. So these three have kind of stuck it out.

Ejaaz:
You have three companies which basically dominate memory manufacturing in its entirety.

Ejaaz:
So the question now is, is this gonna happen in the same way?

Ejaaz:
Now, there's two sides of this argument.

Ejaaz:
The side that argues against this thesis is,

Ejaaz:
Um, AI has created a demand sync for the reasons that we mentioned earlier,

Ejaaz:
Genetic AI, the fact that you need it for all successive GPUs in larger quantities

Ejaaz:
than we've seen in any other technology shift. And that is the case.

Ejaaz:
Um, AI is pretty pervasive across every single industry.

Ejaaz:
So if you assume that every single industry is going to have some form of AI

Ejaaz:
model that changes the way that the industry works or AI agents that can automate, say,

Ejaaz:
I don't know, 10 to 40% of working roles there, you can then extrapolate to

Ejaaz:
think, well, okay, that's going to need a bunch of memory, a bunch more GPUs,

Ejaaz:
a bunch more CPUs, a bunch more agents to be able to facilitate that.

Ejaaz:
So you can then kind of mark up the amount of memory that is required.

Ejaaz:
And that's why these stocks have probably a longer way to go.

Ejaaz:
Now, the skeptic would argue, okay, that's the case for now.

Ejaaz:
But what if we launch an AI model or a GPU, which requires much less memory?

Ejaaz:
Won't that mean that memory oversupply will happen? What happens when Micron's

Ejaaz:
fab gets launched and we have a heck ton more memory?

Ejaaz:
Will that decrease prices in demand? You could argue yes and no.

Ejaaz:
Jevon's paradox, people will just maybe want more of the things.

Ejaaz:
So you may need even more amounts of memory. But those are both sides of the opposing argument.

Josh:
Okay, so I guess I have something that I'd want to challenge you on in kind

Josh:
of supporting why this time is different, if you think this time is truly different.

Josh:
Because when we look at the historical patterns of what these memory cycles

Josh:
are like, they generally last about 18 months and then experience a pullback

Josh:
of anywhere from like 40 to 75%. This happened in 1995, 99, 2017, 2023.

Josh:
And now this current cycle started actually in the fourth quarter of 2024.

Josh:
So we're about month 18 now, which is where things should be either taking a

Josh:
turn for the worse or changing for the better.

Josh:
So if you're thinking about how you allocate personally and how you believe

Josh:
this to go, this is a pretty pivotal time. If you're looking at it as if there's

Josh:
like resistance on the chart, we're at that resistance right now. We're in month 18.

Josh:
Does it seem like it's more probable that this actually is different or is this

Josh:
the natural cycle? Because I mean, all the signs point to it being different this time.

Josh:
But you mentioned, I mean, the ETF had doubled in five weeks.

Josh:
So a lot of that like easy beta that people had is gone.

Josh:
Is there still opportunity for the upside? And what timescale are you thinking about?

Ejaaz:
If you ask me personally, I do think that there is a long term, a lot more upside.

Ejaaz:
But it wouldn't surprise me if we see a short term retrieval from stock price

Ejaaz:
charts. We have had, I think, six weeks of constant uptick in this DRAM ETF

Ejaaz:
and in just memory stocks in general.

Ejaaz:
And that has been on the basis of these quarterly earnings and a bunch of other

Ejaaz:
partnership announcements.

Ejaaz:
That can't keep happening every single week. At some point, we're going to run

Ejaaz:
out of news to kind of push prices up further.

Ejaaz:
And I think we're going to see a recession. I think people are kind of overthinking it.

Ejaaz:
Now, the argument against that would be, well, forward earnings ratios are still

Ejaaz:
quite low. And some people might see that, but I just don't think we can see

Ejaaz:
a chart go up exponentially every single week. I think we're going to have some back pull.

Ejaaz:
The thing that gives me optimism is those backlog of orders that I mentioned

Ejaaz:
earlier that aren't just signed, sealed, but before they even delivered.

Ejaaz:
People have paid for it up front. There was a recent deal that was struck between,

Ejaaz:
I believe it was Google and Micron for their TPUs, and they paid 40% up front.

Ejaaz:
So the point is, these companies really want memory, and the companies that

Ejaaz:
really want memory are not unknown companies. They're the mag-7 who have the

Ejaaz:
cash flow and free cash flow to pay for it and back it up.

Ejaaz:
So if you have some of the smartest, most intelligent companies,

Ejaaz:
most valuable companies in the world, putting up money and big risks like that,

Ejaaz:
you could argue that this time is different and more legitimate.

Ejaaz:
Now, of course, there is the non-zero chance that all of this blows up,

Ejaaz:
that the demand is actually fake, that Anthropic and OpenAI on their demand

Ejaaz:
side actually end up inflating their numbers too much.

Ejaaz:
And that could lead to a waterfall cascade of all these things crashing.

Ejaaz:
But I don't see the structural context for that happening right now.

Josh:
12 months from now, higher or lower?

Ejaaz:
Higher.

Josh:
I think higher too. That feels like the vibe.

Josh:
There is like very clear trajectory and sure, there will be a bit of volatility

Josh:
along the way, but higher feels like an optimistic version of the future that

Josh:
we have enough information to go on that I could feel comfortable about betting on.

Josh:
So I think that's probably most of the case for memory.

Josh:
That's why it's important what unique market structures are now available that

Josh:
weren't in the past version of these 18-month cycles and where the opportunity

Josh:
lies if you are interested in participating.

Josh:
I guess the ask for you, the person who's listening to this, is...

Josh:
What do you think on that 12-month timescale? Or what is the best way for you to get exposure?

Josh:
There's this chart that really devastates me personally, EGIS,

Josh:
as someone who loves to create my own custom PCs and build hardware.

Josh:
The cost, yeah, if you scroll down all the way to the bottom even,

Josh:
the cost of these memories or memory systems for consumer products is through the roof.

Josh:
And that's been a little disappointing because if you want to just go buy a

Josh:
PC, if you want to get a new Xbox, even the new Steam machines,

Josh:
they've all been delayed or the prices have been increased.

Josh:
In fact, if you want to go buy a PlayStation 5, it costs now today than it did,

Josh:
what was it, five years ago when it first came out because of these supply constraints.

Josh:
So we're starting to see it permeate out into the general broad consumer market.

Josh:
And that feels a little discouraging. I wonder how high that can go.

Josh:
I wonder how much tolerance the consumer market has before it starts to bend.

Josh:
So that's something I'm going to be looking at also, is following these prices

Josh:
as it relates to just general consumer hardware.

Josh:
Is the iPhone going to suffer are those prices going to go up the average smartphone

Josh:
costs things of this nature are also on the watch list to see if they could

Josh:
if they could bear it and if they can then we're probably good if not it's something

Josh:
to just take some note of personally

Ejaaz:
Memory is going to be one of the biggest bets in the same way that gpus were

Ejaaz:
and it saw nvidia you know breach of above five trillion dollar market cap i

Ejaaz:
think the same thing is going to happen in um memory this time and we have three concentrated players.

Ejaaz:
One in America, Micron, that is going to do the same thing for memory.

Ejaaz:
So I'm excited about it. I am slightly nervous about the boom and bust of these

Ejaaz:
different cycles, but I guess we'll see if this time is different.

Ejaaz:
The fundamentals. It's getting high, man. Things are going up.

Ejaaz:
Well, at some point, it's going to break, right?

Ejaaz:
I'm looking at this consumer PC memory chart, and I'm like, at some point,

Ejaaz:
people are just going to throw their hands up in the air.

Ejaaz:
It's going to be too expensive and something will need to shift,

Ejaaz:
whether it is these consumer device makers like Apple.

Ejaaz:
Pushing back and saying, listen, we're just not going to do this,

Ejaaz:
or we need to find an alternative.

Ejaaz:
I don't know what that is. But one thing is for sure is the demand for AI models,

Ejaaz:
the demand for AI agents is just going up and to the right.

Ejaaz:
If it's not coming from consumer, it's coming from enterprise.

Ejaaz:
So I just don't know how this conundrum is going to be fixed.

Ejaaz:
Maybe we create an alternative type of model. But either way, we will be tracking it.

Ejaaz:
And I'm bullish memory at least for the next six to 12 months.

Ejaaz:
But that is it. I'm curious whether the listeners of the show have any other takes.

Ejaaz:
We've released, I think, two other investment-themed episodes over the last

Ejaaz:
week and a half, and the feedback has been tremendous.

Ejaaz:
Both comments telling us why we're right and why we are explicitly wrong.

Ejaaz:
I want to hear from both sides because it helps us kind of like figure out where

Ejaaz:
we're going next and what to cover next.

Ejaaz:
If there's anything that we missed on the memory set of things, also let us know.

Ejaaz:
And finally, we heard you on wanting to talk about or unpack the layers of substrates

Ejaaz:
and infrastructure that we covered on our previous episode.

Ejaaz:
We are going to plan and deliver that episode fairly soon. But this week,

Ejaaz:
later on, we're getting Leopold's firings.

Josh:
Happy Leopold week. This is huge.

Ejaaz:
This is huge.

Josh:
Our last two episodes, those were among the biggest ever because it was covering Leopold.

Josh:
I don't want to say, i don't want to take any credit but if you search up leopold's

Josh:
portfolio or if you go on x we're very much the beginning of

Josh:
the leopold narrative and now it is the next chapter in

Josh:
that so leopold's uh fun situational awareness has

Josh:
gone from 1.5 billion to like 6 billion in the course of

Josh:
two years and they publish these things called 13f filings every

Josh:
quarter that reveals the new set of positions that 13f filing is going live

Josh:
sometime by the end of this week it's due by friday so we will be very ambitiously

Josh:
monitoring this and as soon as it releases we'll have an episode ready to go

Josh:
to talk about all the new investment thesis around situational awareness for the next quarter.

Josh:
So stay tuned for that. We are locked in and ready to go as soon as that one drops.

Ejaaz:
Exactly. But aside from that, I think that is it. And we will leave you guys

Ejaaz:
until the next episode. But see you then.